D&D 5E No longer interested in 5e now

[Plane Sailing]

I think we can drop all the 'video gamey/no it isn't/yes it is posts please. That way lays edition warring, and we're going to be stamping that out this time round.

Thanks

 

[Invisible Stalker]

Am I missing the part where they say that they are going to somehow force you to do this?

Hasbro had it inserted into the back of the Obama Health Care Act. As of 2014, all D&D games (including Patherfinder) must be 5th Edition.

 

[Number48]

As for OCR on the PDFs, it would still require a lot of work because OCR is pretty poor. A 99% percent accuracy is actually really bad from a reading standpoint, and OCR doesn't generally like columns, charts or shaded text. It really doesn't like shaded text in a chart in a column.

 

[El Mahdi]

I'm not sure what you're trying to do, here. Are you telling us that people always know that they'll be happy with what they want, even if they have no real knowledge of the topic or the consequences of their preference?

I'm pointing out that people sometimes ask for things that they think they want, without fully understanding the consequences that their decision would have, and that sometimes those consequences actually mean that the end result of what they think they want is actually something they don't want at all.

Do you disagree?

Whoa! I almost got caught in that clever web of words...

No, I'm not saying that people always know what they want. I am saying that if one tells people they know what those people do or do not want better than they do, it's incorrect and insulting...whether it's WotC or anyone else doing it. And usually results in a less than positive response.

And No, you were not pointing out that people sometimes ask for things that they think they want without fully understanding. You were specifically pointing out to the OP, Erdrick Dragin, that he didn't know what he really wanted and he didn't fully understand the consequences.

 

[Dannager]

No, I'm not saying that people always know what they want. I am saying that if one tells people they know what those people do or do not want better than they do, it's incorrect and insulting

Insulting? Perhaps. But incorrect? Wouldn't that depend on whether or not the person in question didn't actually know that they wanted what they thought they want?

Let's say, hypothetically, someone back in the late TSR days said, "Hey TSR, I want a bunch of new campaign settings! You can bring in fans of other genres with them, and it'll increase your customer base! You'll be more successful!"

And let's say, hypothetically, that someone were to respond by saying, "Are you sure that's what you want? That would fracture their customer base even more, and kill their margins, potentially driving the company under!" (which, coincidentally, is what happened)

If Person 1 gets what they think they want, the company that makes what they want goes bankrupt and the products they like disappear. Clearly, this is an outcome that Person 1 probably doesn't want. But, nonetheless, Person 1 thinks they want something that will ultimately lead to that outcome!

And, to boot, it's hypothetically possible that someone (like Person 2) might know more about the circumstances surrounding that decision than Person 1 does, and is therefore better positioned to figure out what should be done to maximize Person 1's desirable outcomes than Person 1 himself is!

...whether it's WotC or anyone else doing it. And usually results in a less than positive response.

The temperature of the response doesn't affect the original statement's truth value.

And No, you were not pointing out that people sometimes ask for things that they think they want without fully understanding. You were specifically pointing out to the OP, Erdrick Dragin, that he didn't know what he really wanted and he didn't fully understand the consequences.

And that's something that I stand by. Both in the general and in the specific sense - all the more now that we know Erdrick had a history of problems here.

I'm happy to hash out the actual argument though - that trying to support all editions with current material simultaneously is probably a financial ruinous strategy. Is that something you'd like to do?

 

[El Mahdi]

And that's something that I stand by. Both in the general and in the specific sense - all the more now that we know Erdrick had a history of problems here.

His having a history of problems doesn't justify anyone using that as an excuse for inappropriate posting. Telling people what they think or don't think, telling them that one knows better than they do, and/or doing it in an insulting manner are all pretty clearly laid out as inapropriate on these forums.

 

[Alan Shutko]

As for OCR on the PDFs, it would still require a lot of work because OCR is pretty poor. A 99% percent accuracy is actually really bad from a reading standpoint, and OCR doesn't generally like columns, charts or shaded text. It really doesn't like shaded text in a chart in a column.

I disagree, for two main reasons. First, OCR has gotten much, much better over the years. I've been chopping bindings off magazines and OCRing them, and I get good results even for text on top of full color pictures.

The second reason is that you don't need to replace the image with text. Just leave the scanned image of the page there, and put the text underneath so you can copy/paste and do searches. (This is the default of most OCR packages these days). It does mean you have big files, but in the 13 years since the Dragon Magazine archive was produced, computers have gotten much faster. Right now, it's no problem to browse through a 50MB PDF, even on an iPad. In fact, even magazines like Kobold's Quarterly routinely top 30-40MB simply because of the amount of full color art they use.

There was an ongoing market for the old PDFs, even though they were low quality and many weren't OCRed. Better quality, searchable and copy/paste-ready PDFs would have a market without needing too much work.

 

[Dannager]

His having a history of problems doesn't justify anyone using that as an excuse for inappropriate posting. Telling people what they think or don't think, telling them that one knows better than they do, and/or doing it in an insulting manner are all pretty clearly laid out as inapropriate on these forums.

You're right. It's much more appropriate for me to assume that Erdrick knew exactly what he wanted, including the collapse of the industry leader. I need to remember to give people the benefit of the doubt. Why second guess them? They've obviously thought things all the way through.

 

[trancejeremy]

I disagree, for two main reasons. First, OCR has gotten much, much better over the years. I've been chopping bindings off magazines and OCRing them, and I get good results even for text on top of full color pictures.

The second reason is that you don't need to replace the image with text. Just leave the scanned image of the page there, and put the text underneath so you can copy/paste and do searches. (This is the default of most OCR packages these days). It does mean you have big files, but in the 13 years since the Dragon Magazine archive was produced, computers have gotten much faster. Right now, it's no problem to browse through a 50MB PDF, even on an iPad. In fact, even magazines like Kobold's Quarterly routinely top 30-40MB simply because of the amount of full color art they use.

There was an ongoing market for the old PDFs, even though they were low quality and many weren't OCRed. Better quality, searchable and copy/paste-ready PDFs would have a market without needing too much work.

One of the really amazing things about the Dragon Magazine Archive on cd-rom was not only did it have pdfs of all the magazines (250 issues + 7 of TSR), they were OCRed as well. (Well, not the ads, but everything else, including the letters)

Like

Dear Dragon:
Is there such a thing as an elf sapper?

Yes, but you cannot get much sap from them.

And that was from 1999

 

[mudbunny]

This reminds me of when WotC was telling us "you don't really want x...trust us, you really want y". And that worked out soooooo well...

(Emphasis mine)

That describes every single bit of advertising that has ever been done.