D&D 5E Who really IS the target audience of D&D Next?

[Mallus]

The target audience for 5e is every player who isn't absolutely in love with, and married to, whatever game they're currently playing is, and is willing to try something new(ish).

This includes my group. Over the years we've played successful 3e, 4e, and now AD&D campaigns (with some Savage Worlds and M&M thrown in). We like (love?) role-playing games, but aren't partisans, loyalists, "Pathfinder men", "OSR-or-die", or anything like that. We *do* have a preferred play style, but that's proven to be system-independent.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

Seriously. It's amazing that people dont understand this at this point in the game. If 4E had good APs that would be great for 4E players. But if you're not a fan of 4E then what does it matter how great the AP is?

Even less than that. If 4E had good APs, that would be great for 4E players that enjoy APs. However, since at least one of the styles that 4E caters too is not a good fit for APs, we are already talking subset of 4E players before we get into quality.

This is an adventure module problem for any game that encourages people to do some form of sandbox, but is not exclusively oriented towards it. It is easier to write "good" adventures for APs (or even 2E-style background story) than it is to write "good" adventures for the various sandbox options, because a lot of what people want in the former is something that can be relatively easily designed and then communicated by a good writer.

Of course, it's also easier to write "lousy" APs or the like, because once you "jump the shark" on the premise and get a writer that isn't all that good, things go downhill in a hurry. So once you have an designer that understands sandbox well enough, the risk/reward is less extreme when producing the relevant adventure source material.

 

[BryonD]

Let me note in passing that I never claimed otherwise.

Then I'll clarify. Good APs not only are not "the one and only thing" WotC needs to capture Pathfinder fans, but if they relied on that they would not come close to success.

You also said they don't need a new edition to do that. If "that" means produce good APs, then you may be correct, but it would be a waste of time and effort. If "that" means capture Pathfinder fans then they absolutely need a new edition just to have a SHOT at success.

 

[Aeolius]

IMO, the one and only thing WotC needs in order to start competing for Pathfinder players is a high quality line of adventure paths. And they don't need a new edition of D&D accomplish that

Fair enough. I have not run a pre-packaged module/adventure path since the 80s. I doubt 5e would have a better chance than 4e, of writing one that interests me. Making stuff up is half the fun!

The target audience for 5e is every player who isn't absolutely in love with, and married to, whatever game they're currently playing is, and is willing to try something new(ish).

My last game switched from 1e to 3e in the middle of the campaign. I remain hopeful that 5e will tempt me to do the same, with my current 3.5e adventure.

 

[Thalionalfirin]

The target audience for 5e is every player who isn't absolutely in love with, and married to, whatever game they're currently playing is, and is willing to try something new(ish).

This includes my group. Over the years we've played successful 3e, 4e, and now AD&D campaigns (with some Savage Worlds and M&M thrown in). We like (love?) role-playing games, but aren't partisans, loyalists, "Pathfinder men", "OSR-or-die", or anything like that. We *do* have a preferred play style, but that's proven to be system-independent.

I think Mallus has it spot on. I think there are a lot of gamers out there who are willing to give a shot to something that fits their preferred play style.

They're not going to get the edition warriors, the paladins of the holy crusade to protect the "one true edition" but I really suspect their numbers are small (though they are quite vocal on the various forum battlefields).

WOTC is betting on the casual gamer... but casual not so much in terms of how often someone plays, but how open someone is to trying something new.

 

[pauljathome]

The target audience for 5e is every player who isn't absolutely in love with, and married to, whatever game they're currently playing is, and is willing to try something new(ish).
.

I definitely meet that description.

And they're currently missing if they're aiming at me.

I may definitely be misinterpreting you, but it seems like you're almost saying :
"Only people with closed minds aren't going to like 5th Edition". And that argument I most definitely reject.

I'm definitely willing to play something new but I also need to have a reason to try something new. Something about the game that excites me. That is different enough from the other games I play.

DndNext has to EARN my money and my time. It gets no automatic entitlement just because it is produced by WOTC. It is not automatically better than the 100's of other games because it is produced by WOTC.
.

 

[Mallus]

I
WOTC is betting on the casual gamer... but casual not so much in terms of how often someone plays, but how open someone is to trying something new.

Yep - they're betting the number of die-hard fans who are completely satisfied with a particular D&D version is (relatively) small.

I think this is a safe bit. Using your term, I agree the number of "casual" players outnumber the partisans by a wide margin. I also think the partisans are over-represented in online discussions (obvious poster is obvious!).

I definitely meet that description.

Welcome to the club!

I may definitely be misinterpreting you, but it seems like you're almost saying :
"Only people with closed minds aren't going to like 5th Edition".

You are misinterpreting me. I didn't imply anyone was closed-minded (intentionally, at any rate).

I believe the majority of gamers playing --and enjoying-- 4e/3e/Pathfinder/AD&D/OD&D/retroclones/whatever aren't so committed and/or satisfied with their current system they wouldn't consider playing something else.

I think most gamers have a "system I like that's working for me right now" rather than an absolute "system of choice for ever and ever". And I completely disagree with the idea most gamers are on some kind of Grail quest for the perfect rules system (another unstated implication common to these threads).

 

[Tony Vargas]

The target audience for 5e is every player who isn't absolutely in love with, and married to, whatever game they're currently playing is, and is willing to try something new(ish).

Then I'm afraid they may have radically over-estimated the size of that target audience. The D&D demograhic that's willing to happily switch to the new ed is playing 4e, and they're not, apparently, a big enough audience, as it is. There are even some of those who would only do so if it was /better/, and those who have just decided to cirle their 4e wagons.

Fans of other eds, though, have been resisting change for 4 or 12 or 23 years...

 

[dd.stevenson]

Then I'll clarify.

Your first post was clear. I don't think there's any disagreement between our posts. You think that 4E--AP or no AP--has no chance of capturing a meaningful portion of the pathfinder market. I think that D&D--4E or 5E--will not be competing for the pathfinder market until WotC releases a quality AP line. I don't see any conflict between these two statements.

 

[DaveMage]

This thread poses a great question.

I don't know who WotC thinks is the target, but I'm thinking that those that will find 5E appealing are those who never really found 3.x/Pathfinder or 4E to their taste (or those who tried one or both and eventually stopped liking one or both).

For me, there's a bit of practicality involved. I really don't want to learn another ruleset. And I really don't want a new ruleset that's not supported by awesome adventures. Also, I have a LOT of superb adventures for 3.x/Pathfinder that I still want to run or be run through (Rappan Athuk, Slumbering Tsar, many Paizo adventure paths, Ptolus, Castle Whiterock, and many, many more). In fact, I have so many, that a new ruleset would be a deterrent to enjoying these many adventures, as I would have to convert more significantly than staying with 3.x/Pathfinder.

I don't have the time (or the passion) to make my own stuff anymore, so for those like me, I think we'll take a pass.

I imagine that those who like to homebrew may find appeal in the new edition, since it should allow them to scratch their creative itch a bit more.