Special Conversion Thread: Finishing off the oozes

[freyar]

We'll just have to make sure it's CR 8, then.

I'd rather not boost Hide so much, I think. (Did you remember to include the +4 racial bonus there? I have -5 Dex, -8 Huge, +13 ranks, +2 Stealthy, +4 racial always = +6. Did I screw something up there?) Let's move some of the ranks somewhere else and maybe only give it a racial/circumstance bonus to Hide underground.

 

[Cleon]

We'll just have to make sure it's CR 8, then.

I'd rather not boost Hide so much, I think. (Did you remember to include the +4 racial bonus there? I have -5 Dex, -8 Huge, +13 ranks, +2 Stealthy, +4 racial always = +6. Did I screw something up there?) Let's move some of the ranks somewhere else and maybe only give it a racial/circumstance bonus to Hide underground.

The final proposal used 9 ranks in Hide, not 13, and the circumstance bonus already only applies to "Hide underground":

So, how about this:

Skill Ranks: Hide 9, Move Silently 9, Listen 8
Skills: Climb +11, Hide +2*, Move Silently +10, Listen +8
Feats: Improved Initiative, Reckless Offense [?], Stealthy, Weapon Focus (slam)
Skill bonuses: A dense pudding has a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks. A dense pudding has a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks and can always choose to take 10 on a Climb check, even if rushed or threatened.
*A dense pudding has a +8 circumstance bonus to Hide checks in underground caves.

An AD&D Dense Pudding is pretty good at ambushes (-2 to opponent's surprise), so it needs non-trivial Hide and Move Silently skills for its Challenge Rating. Just not as good as a Gray Pudding's (which was -4).

Incidentally, a 2E AD&D leopard had a -3 surprise modifier, and those cats have +8 Hide and Move Silently in 3E (increases to +12 Hide in undergrowth).

A Dense Pudding with Hide +2 (+10 in caves) and Move Silently +10 is roughly on par with a leopard, which has a LOT lower CR.

 

[freyar]

Besides the circumstance bonus underground, you have a racial bonus all the time. I'm proposing to drop that racial bonus. Leopards should be good at hiding for their CR, and I wouldn't expect a dense pudding to be good at hiding outside it's natural habitat -- underground.

 

[Cleon]

Besides the circumstance bonus underground, you have a racial bonus all the time. I'm proposing to drop that racial bonus. Leopards should be good at hiding for their CR, and I wouldn't expect a dense pudding to be good at hiding outside it's natural habitat -- underground.

But, going by the surprise modifier, a Dense Pudding should be almost as ggod at hiding for their CR as a Leopard.

I would consider dropping the general Hide bonus and giving it a +12 bonus to Hide checks underground, which results in the same underground hiding numbers, but just dropping the +4 racial bonus would certainly weaken its stealth skills too much.

 

[Shade]

But, going by the surprise modifier, a Dense Pudding should be almost as ggod at hiding for their CR as a Leopard.

I would consider dropping the general Hide bonus and giving it a +12 bonus to Hide checks underground, which results in the same underground hiding numbers, but just dropping the +4 racial bonus would certainly weaken its stealth skills too much.

I favor this approach.

 

[Cleon]

I favor this approach.

Oh, very well.

Updating the Working Draft.

 

[freyar]

+12 Hide underground is fine; I just don't want them to get a bonus outside their natural environment.

I think CR 8 works well; they're pretty comparable to the CR 7 black pudding, but the extra hp from Hearty are probably worth an extra CR -- they'd buy it an extra round of combat, I'd expect.

 

[Cleon]

+12 Hide underground is fine; I just don't want them to get a bonus outside their natural environment.

I think CR 8 works well; they're pretty comparable to the CR 7 black pudding, but the extra hp from Hearty are probably worth an extra CR -- they'd buy it an extra round of combat, I'd expect.

Works for me.

Updating the Working Draft.

What about the suggestion of increasing the weight since it's eponymously "Dense"?

A standard Black Pudding (15' dia by 2' thick, 9 short tons) works out to 50.92 lbs per cubic foot.

How about increasing the weight by 25% to 22,500 pounds, which would make it 63.66 lbs per cu', or slightly above the density of water (62.43 lb/cu')?

Or, we could make it 22,000 pounds, which equals 62.25 lb/cu', so it will have more-or-less neutral buoyancy rather than a tendency to slowly sink.

 

[freyar]

22000 or 22500 doesn't make much difference to me, I suppose. Water is surprisingly dense! I guess I'd pick 22000 if it's all equal to you, but I'll go along with whichever you prefer.

 

[Shade]

22000 or 22500 doesn't make much difference to me, I suppose. Water is surprisingly dense! I guess I'd pick 22000 if it's all equal to you, but I'll go along with whichever you prefer.

I have no strong preference, either.