D&D 5E How Can D&D Next Win You Over?

[Cadfan]

Its fairly unlikely that I'll be going to 5e. To do so, they'd have to give me examples of things I could do in 5e that I can't do in 4e. It doesn't have to be something like "Play a [race] [class] [background]," where that combination isn't very worthwhile in 4e. It could be something like "Run faster combats, with an appropriate amount of tactical depth to the time spent in combat at the game table."

It would have to be something that I value, of course. But I value basically anything about good rpg design, with the caveat that I am allergic to nostalgia.

 

[Cadfan]

*double post due to lag*

 

[TwinBahamut]

I think they'd have to do a new total 180 on the direction they've taken 5E so far in order to really sell me on the game...

I want a game that takes the core of 4E, and works to improve its many flaws to create a better game from 4E's solid foundation. For example, the entire power system could be thoroughly revised and improved, various subsystems like Paragon Paths and such would need to be completely replaced, magic items could be improved by reducing magic item dependency to the limit, and so on. The total removal of "per day" abilities and mechanics would be a great thing, as well.

I don't want to see the continued use of the mechanical and mathematical foundation from pre-3E days, because it simply doesn't work. I can tolerate a lot of different things I dislike from older editions, but the game seriously needs to have the math right before I'll consider it. A large amount of transparency with the mechanics and a lack of reliance on DM fiat are important, too.

Most of all, I just want to see something new. Something never done before with D&D. Something that was never seen in 3E or 4E and something that can't be provided by the countless competing alternatives to D&D. I want a version of D&D that will let me play as a werewolf from level 1, as a knight who rides a dragon into battle (using the RAW!), or as a mighty warrior of myth who can defeat a thousand armed soldiers in a single battle. I want a game that brings more fun classes like the Warden, Shaman, or Warlord to the forefront or brings in mechanics as fun and flavorful as the styles of the Book of the Nine Swords. I want to see something exciting.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I want a version of D&D that will let me play as a werewolf from level 1, as a knight who rides a dragon into battle (using the RAW!), or as a mighty warrior of myth who can defeat a thousand armed soldiers in a single battle. I want a game that brings more fun classes like the Warden, Shaman, or Warlord to the forefront or brings in mechanics as fun and flavorful as the styles of the Book of the Nine Swords.

*cough*HERO*cough*

 

[Tony Vargas]

So, what about you? What vain ambitions do you desire out of D&D Next? What promises does WotC have to deliver on? Can you be won over, and how?

It's really very simple. All 5e has to do is be non-trivially superior to 4e. It's not that hard. 1e was better than 0D&D, 2e was a modest upgrade on 1e, 3e fixed a few of the most nagging problems of classic D&D and 4e further improved upon that. 5e need only continue the trend. Of course, half-eds haven't faired so well, 3.5 didn't really improve on 3.0, it was just pointlessly different. Essentials was, if anything, worse than 4e.

5e just has to do the whole-ed thing, and find things to do that it can do /better/ than D&D has done in the past.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

1e was better than 0D&D, 2e was a modest upgrade on 1e, 3e fixed a few of the most nagging problems of classic D&D and 4e further improved upon that. 5e need only continue the trend. Of course, half-eds haven't faired so well, 3.5 didn't really improve on 3.0, it was just pointlessly different. Essentials was, if anything, worse than 4e.

Really?

I disagree with goodly portions of your statement, cut that's probably best for another thread.

 

[GX.Sigma]

D&D Next has already won me over.

It's simple, it's quick, and it feels like D&D, and those are the only things I really care about.

 

[Someone]

Certainly it's not goin to win me with nostalgia and old feel alone, specially when there already are two dozen retroclones, many of them free, which I can use to try to recreate the days when I was 15.

At that age, the murderhobo party, the nonsensical dungeons, the gotcha traps, the unhelpful deranged NPC hermits or the private jokes ("I attack the gazebo") had their charm. That's the old school charm, but trying to recreate that now would be a disaster for the same reasons I may remember fondly my first car but I'd rather die than buy another of the same model.

 

[arscott]

In order to win me over, Next would have to meaningfully address all of the problems with 3e and earlier that were addressed by 4e.

4e had a solution to the power disparity between casters and non-casters
4e combat math worked all the way from level one up into epic.
4e had monsters that worked within the action economy, whether the party was fighting one creature or a horde.

Now, just because 4e had solutions to 3e's problems, doesn't mean they had the best solutions. I'd be fine if DDN solved these problems in entirely different ways than 4e. I don't necessarily want to see AEDU return, for example.

But I have the sense that the DDN designers don't care about those issues at all. It seems like, because 4e wasn't a success, they decided that all of the problems that 4e was trying to fix aren't really problems after all. Unless the design of DDN can convince me otherwise, I'm skipping it.

 

[TwinBahamut]

*cough*HERO*cough*

I'd rather eat nails than play a point-buy RPG system like HERO again.