The biggest difference, other than what can be taken along for the ride, is the risk of deadly failure. (the risk of potentially painful failure by appearing too high is another difference, but that's easy to get around)]/quote]
Okay, but if 3e had the fixes of "caster only plus X weight" and "you can die because you can end up 6" under ground" then you're fine with it? I don't think I'm alone in saying that I don't want my player dying so easily on an otherwise successful spell. Especially since there is no way to pull out and since there are better limiting factors to stop players/parties from abusing teleport.
Fair enough, but one can just put it under the high-risk high-reward category. A caster using the spell is going to know there's a chance, however slight, of messing it up; to avoid teleport becoming SOP the failure consequences have to - at least sometimes - be nasty.
Right, but again, that works for you not for all. I'd call that a really old mindset in a lot of ways. You don't start with 3HP anymore either. That's not to say this mindset is wrong, I just don't think it works for everyone. So saying "1e version is the best" leaves something to be desired for a lot of people.
Having to walk a few extra miles isn't nasty.
Sarcasm? I'm confused are you saying that having to walk a few extra miles isn't nasty enough or that having to walk a few extra miles IS nasty? It seemed like sarcasm, since you seem to want casters to suffer a chance of simply dying on cast of the spell.
As a player I know I'd just find that to be annoying, particularly if it happened every time. As a DM - meh, still annoying, as now I have to dream up possible encounters for the intervening distance if needed.
If it is expected by both the party and the DM then it would stop being an annoyance and more of a "cost of doing business", in the same way that it is "annoying" to die because you landed a couple inches below ground level.
As far as the whole "possible encounters" thing, isn't that the same thing you would have to do if they didn't teleport, but now it is closer to 1 encounter than it is to 1 per X hours.
I guess it depends on whether the spell is looking for the particular surroundings wheverver they may be or a fixed GPS-style location.
If I've seen the inside of the Queen's carriage can I teleport there without knowing whether ithe carriage is currently in London or Birmingham? By the same token, if I know the inside of the captain's chambers can I teleport there without knowing where the ship actually is?
Lanefan
Yeah, I don't remember reading that you have to know where exactly in space something is. You need to know what it looks like "being able to picture it" and all, but I don't think it is ever expressly said one way or another that you can't teleport to a mobile target.
Because they are y'know, actually roleplaying? Because in character they are taking threats seriously and want to take them out efficiently and safely and, most of all, don't want to die? Scry and Fry is their best way to stay alive and beat the bad guys - and they can go griffon riding when things aren't threatening the world.
What a day of replies this has been. Agreeing with Neonchameleon and pemerton and disagreeing with Lanefan. *shakes head*
Anyway, @
Elf Witch , this is exactly right. I'm not going to bring up the rest of Neonchameleon's reply since it is just more of the same. But like I said upthread, if a tactic is smart then it becomes prudent planning and a good strategy when dealing with these kinds of threats. Since the problem of scry/teleport does exist it should be something to address. We shouldn't just say it doesn't exist and move on. If it exists for even a minority, regardless of if it has come up in your game or not, then it should be dealt with by the designers going forward.
It's like Mass Effect. Shepherd is presented by this race against time in character. Which means that in character based on the fiction you chase Saren down as fast as possible. But if you are playing against the metagame resolution system you don't do this. You survey half the planets in the galaxy for minerals, and the absolute last places you visit are the ones with main plot on them.
There's a huge disconnect between doing what's smart and matches the fiction (Scry and Fry) and doing what gives the most fun (exploration). And these are two things that should not be in conflict.
I definitely agree with this too. It shouldn't be a compromise between what is fun and what is smart. Nor between exploration and killing things. They aren't exclusive concepts. But, as it was mentioned earlier; Teleport doesn't break games AS LONG as you don't care if your party never travels by land ever again. Since I think very few games are categorized by a no longer wanting to EVER rely on ground travel I think we need to examine teleport and find out why it is how it is and how to fix the desire to abuse it.