The "3.XE/PF Crowd" - where will they go? What will they play?

[Derren]

Unlikely.
Those players are already "out of the loop" as far as WotC is concerned and for them to return to 5E it has to be better than 3.X or PF. And so far it doesn't look like 5E is designed to be better than them but instead just be a little less of a downgrade than 4E was.

 

[Morrus]

Not that I have any insight into WotC's strategy at all, but I wonder if the primary goal is conversion or recruitment? In other words - are they trying to pull back players who have left; or are they trying to create new players? Obviously, they're always doing both as a core business function, but I wonder which has the more emphasis?

 

[Crothian]

Ask again in a year and a half when it's out. I do like to plan ahead my gaming but I have no idea what my group will want during the summer of 2014. I have been totally ignoring the playtests as I don't like to look at incomplete games. My gaming time is precious so I use it for games that are complete.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

At this point D&D Next isnt even a blip on my radar. I havent downloaded the play test to look at it or even try to put together a play test group. I'm actually pretty satisfied with [notranslate]Pathfinder[/notranslate] as a game and Paizo as a company. Since the start of 4E I've seen that I dont NEED to play D&D to fell like I'm part of a thriving hobby. I'm pretty much off of the WOTC teat at this point and D&D Next is going to have to phenomenal for me to even try it out.

The D&D/WOTC ship has pretty much passed for me I think.

 

[DaveMage]

Unlikely.
Those players are already "out of the loop" as far as WotC is concerned and for them to return to 5E it has to be better than 3.X or PF. And so far it doesn't look like 5E is designed to be better than them but instead just be a little less of a downgrade than 4E was.

But even if the ruleset is better, the problem is support of the game. If WotC continues the rules-splat practice of 3.x/4.x the game will (once again) collapse under its own weight. To me, the question is not how good the ruleset will be, but how will the game be supported and can I use my current D&D library with the new ruleset? In other words, will they provide a conversion manual to convert from my edition of choice? Will they provide more adventures rather than rules expansions? Will the designers that are working on the game still be around to create good support material or will they be laid off during the next round of cuts?

Not that I have any insight into WotC's strategy at all, but I wonder if the primary goal is conversion or recruitment? In other words - are they trying to pull back players who have left; or are they trying to create new players? Obviously, they're always doing both as a core business function, but I wonder which has the more emphasis?

I'm sure they will try to do both, but as there are a LOT of players out there that play D&D or one of its offshoots, I'd guess that pulling in existing players of other systems is the way to go.

 

[Greenfield]

I think it depends on why we stuck with 3.* and/or [notranslate]Pathfinder[/notranslate] in the first place, I think. And no two groups will necessarily share the same reasoning on that.

I've played 3.* and 4e, and of the two I prefer 3.5. I've looked at [notranslate]Pathfinder[/notranslate], but neither I nor my group were comfortable with the power-up it includes. I've also played with Arcana Evolved.

I sat in on an early 5e play test and was not impressed. Still, I'll wait to see what the final version looks like before I make any serious decision.

One consideration for me is the price. D&D 4e had this "Everything is Core" thing that implied that you needed to buy everything, since nothing was optional. That was a non-starter for me. It felt like a money-grab.

Also, I have a considerable "library" of 3.0 and 3.5 books, enough that my group can comfortably choose the optional add on material needed to give our campaigns just about any flavor we choose. It will take a while before I could afford to make a similar investment in yet another version, presuming that range of options is even available.

So, "where will we go"? Back to the game table to play the game of our choice, just as we always have. We might move to PF if the group chooses, or we might migrate to 5e. We've tried 4 for 10 levels and decided that we'd had enough. I doubt that we'll do much in that direction.

Regarding "legacy" gamers in general, some are simply grognards who don't want to change. Some others feel that they don't have to be the first one on their block with the latest gaming goodie. Some are "cheerleader" types who embrace the latest game with unbridled enthusiasm, and can see no flaws in it no matter what, until those flaws become too obvious and they burn out, totally disillusioned, until a new/sparkly comes along. Until then they'll stick with a comfort zone. Some are "evolvers" who want to play what they know, and incorporate more and more aspects of a newer version over time. (I played in a campaign that we used to describe as "D&D version 1.2.3.5" because of the mixture of old and new rules we used.)

So the short answer is and will be "Anywhere we like."

 

[haakon1]

I'll keep running 3.5e for the next several years, at least.

In the campaign where I'm a player, I'll play whatever the DM wants. That's 4e now, and I'm hoping for 5e ASAP.

 

[JustinAlexander]

In the same vein as Merc's thread, will 5E draw in much of the 3.XE/PF crowd?

Short answer: No.

Long answer: The 3.X/PF crowd has already demonstrated that they're fundamentally satisfied with the game they're currently playing. If they're dissatisfied with certain areas of the game, they've probably already made the necessary adjustments to fix them. They've spent years achieving a mastery of the system and that system is the most supported RPG system in history and continues to receive active support with great frequency and of very high quality. Nor will they have any problems finding players, because the pool of available players is huge and the Paizo maintains a very large system of organized play.

So... how does WotC compete with that? They're going up against the entrenched values of the time and money people have invested in the system already, which means they have to leverage other competitive aspects to provide a greater value than the status quo.

Quantity of support? Nope. It took a decade to build up the existing library of 3.X/PF support and there's no realistic way for WotC to even catch up to that.

Quality of support? Paizo achieves a gold standard. If WotC significantly improves the quality of their output, they could realistically hope to match Paizo, but they can't actually value-add.

Improvements to the system? The problem here is that there is not really any deep dissatisfaction with the 3.X/PF system among 3.X/PF players. Oh, we all have things we bitch about. But the only thing we really all agree on is that there's something wrong with high level play either in terms of power disparity or complexity. And everything else is usually a trivial patch. Even if WotC released "3.X, but better!" it's not really clear that they can achieve enough "better" to get people to abandon [notranslate]Pathfinder[/notranslate] at this point. They might have slightly better luck getting people who stuck with 3.X to simply upgrade (like Windows XP users skipping Vista and going straight to Windows 7), but this is really an academic point because it's clear that this isn't what the designers of D&D Next are looking to deliver.

Digital tools and support? This might work, but WotC has proven itself almost completely incapable of delivering digital support for their games (and just abandoned the digital table) so it's unlikely to actually happen.

They need an edge. And I'm not seeing where they get it unless Paizo just completely falls apart in 2013.

 

[pogre]

Most folks will try D&D Next. If it offers a better experience with quality support WOTC will have a winner. If it does not grab folks it won't. I think WOTC has one shot at bringing a lot of those folks in - they need to hit a homerun with the rules AND the first support and adventures.

I wonder though if WOTC is in a catch22 with their open playtest. They're getting feedback from a lot of folks who are not PF/3.5 fans. The PF/3.5 folks are still playing their game and not playtesting. I would not be surprised if the number of folks downloading the playtest documents has dropped considerably lately.

 

[delericho]

At the moment, it looks highly unlikely that I'll make the switch.

Although after my current campaign ends, I'll be taking a long break from D&D (of all editions). My next campaign will be SWSE, and then I have a Black Crusade campaign planned. So it will be 2015 before I run another campaign in D&D... and it's far too soon to say what edition I might be running then!