D&D 5E Dex mod tp damage when using ranged weapons: Please do away with.

[The Human Target]

I think there is an argument for not adding Dex damage to ranged attacks because it helps to balance them out vs melee attacks.

I don't think there is an argument that it doesn't "make sense."

Sneak attack doesn't cover hitting someone in a vital spot. It covers the huge advantage a rogue gets for attacking an unaware or distracted opponent.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Pathfinder does this perfectly without giving bonuses to damage from anything other than strength. There is a specific weapon property that allows a PC to add their dex mod to damage.

I don't want a return to:

Dex based PC's adding dex mod to damage.
Int based PC's adding Int mod to damage.
Wis based PC's adding Wis mod to damage etc etc.....

Perhaps I've misunderstood something about what you're saying, but I believe that 5e currently works similarly to PF in this respect. Melee weapons default to using Strength, unless they have the Finesse property (which allows you to use Str or Dex). Missile weapons default to using Dexterity, unless they are thrown (in which case they use Str). I'm not aware of any rules that allow a player to circumvent those properties to use Wisdom (or any other stat).

 

[El Mahdi]

deleted

 

[ForeverSlayer]

Perhaps I've misunderstood something about what you're saying, but I believe that 5e currently works similarly to PF in this respect. Melee weapons default to using Strength, unless they have the Finesse property (which allows you to use Str or Dex). Missile weapons default to using Dexterity, unless they are thrown (in which case they use Str). I'm not aware of any rules that allow a player to circumvent those properties to use Wisdom (or any other stat).

I was just using those as an example because that is how they were in 4th edition. They were there but they really didn't make sense and I just don't want that to happen again.

 

[JamesonCourage]

Pathfinder does this perfectly without giving bonuses to damage from anything other than strength. There is a specific weapon property that allows a PC to add their dex mod to damage.

Out of curiosity, how is a weapon feature that adds Dexterity bonus to damage somehow better than it coming from the PC? If you think Dex to damage doesn't make sense, how is this "perfect"? I'm just asking because it seems to contradict what I think you said in the original post.

I think I might disagree with you here - because if DEX is great for hit and damage with ranged weapons, AND AC boost, AND initiative boost AND saves against damaging spells, then how does that compare with STR which is just great for hit and damage with melee weapons? On the face of it, Dex becomes a much more valuable commodity pound for pound.

I agree with this to an extent. I don't want the ability to have Dex to damage as default. As a default, I like something like the Weapon Finesse feat (use all light weapons with Dex to attack roll), and certain weapons having a "finesse" feature that means you don't need the feat for those weapons. Past that, I like a feat that lets you use Dex to damage on any weapon that allows you to use Dex to attack (bows, Weapon Finesse+light weapons, or finesse-feature weapons). That way there's a permanent character resource used up that a Str-fighter doesn't have to use (since Str is used for a lot less than Dex is).

The downside, of course, is the "really simple core" that doesn't use feats. I guess if I got it the way I wanted, then they couldn't use Dex to damage (outside of magic items?). So, no way it going to be perfect, but that's my preference.

In general: If you shoot an arrow at someone, how much does it hurt? Well, that depends on where you hit them. That depends on your accuracy (Dexterity). Makes sense to me.

That's pretty much my take on it. Dexterity to attack default; want to be extra good at aiming those arrows for maximum hurt? Take the feat (natural talent, training, etc.). As always, play what you like

 

[ForeverSlayer]

Out of curiosity, how is a weapon feature that adds Dexterity bonus to damage somehow better than it coming from the PC? If you think Dex to damage doesn't make sense, how is this "perfect"? I'm just asking because it seems to contradict what I think you said in the original post.

Because it's a magical ability of the weapon. Magic is defined as a force that allows us to do things outside the norm so that's why it makes sense in that regard. Just making dex mod grant a damage bonus just for the hell of it doesn't make sense to me.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

That's pretty much my take on it. Dexterity to attack default; want to be extra good at aiming those arrows for maximum hurt? Take the feat (natural talent, training, etc.). As always, play what you like

So do you hit them in just the right spot every time? Is there no difference in just barely hitting them and hitting them extremely easily? Wouldn't you figure that beating the enemies AC by 10 would constitute hitting them more accurately which in turn would result in more damage being dealt? Unfortunately, the mechanics don't work that way accept for a critical hit.

 

[GX.Sigma]

But wouldn't that argument hold true for melee weapons too? But Strength is used as a combination of both how hard you hit someone and how well you can land a blow in a damaging location

I just don't think that's valid. Granted, a broadsword to the neck is more effective than a broadsword to the toenail, but I don't think that has to do with accuracy, so much as with getting past your opponent's guard in the heat of combat. Either way, a big heavy broadsword isn't the weapon of choice if your plan is to dart around with your dexterity (though a dagger might be).

The strong person is able to use more powerful bows, aim better with that heavy old crossbow etc.

I think that's most realistically modeled as a Str requirement for heavier weapons (or, because that would introduce a needlessly fiddly rule, weapon proficiency feats work fine).

Either way: If it's not Dex mod to damage, then what would it be? Based on my (limited) experience with archery, Str mod wouldn't make any sense. If you don't use enough strength, the arrow doesn't go anywhere. If you use too much strength, you damage the bow. It's about controlling how much power you put into it--which would be Dexterity.

 

[Falling Icicle]

I think all weapons should use Strength for damage. Allowing "finesse" weapons to use Dexterity for damage makes Strength largely irrelevant for many characters, such as monks and archers, even though Strength should matter alot for them.

 

[JamesonCourage]

Because it's a magical ability of the weapon. Magic is defined as a force that allows us to do things outside the norm so that's why it makes sense in that regard. Just making dex mod grant a damage bonus just for the hell of it doesn't make sense to me.

Oh, magic. You said weapon property and I didn't assume magic. I assumed mundane. I get more of where this makes sense to you now.

So do you hit them in just the right spot every time? Is there no difference in just barely hitting them and hitting them extremely easily? Wouldn't you figure that beating the enemies AC by 10 would constitute hitting them more accurately which in turn would result in more damage being dealt? Unfortunately, the mechanics don't work that way accept for a critical hit.

Well, um, yes. That's why, in my RPG, when you beat someone's AC by enough, you deal extra damage. But yeah, that's why it makes sense to me. As always, play what you like