Planescape Do You Care About Planescape Lore?

[billd91]

But for me, if the Planescape crew get to have mezzodaemons and nycadaemons, then what am I meant to do when running Vault of the Drow or using the city encounter table in the (original) DMG? I don't want my mezzodaemons and nycadaemons to default to the Planescape conception of "yugoloths".

Then you do what everyone using those monsters does in a post-Planescape world - you use them anyway, but without the Planescape baggage. You may have to put up with Planescape-savvy players making assumptions, but you had to do that already with most D&D creatures anyway.

 

[Alan Shutko]

That's why I've reached the conclusion that 4E's Eladrin were done badly. Not that the race isn't good in itself - it's a super addition to D&D, in my opinion. But calling them "Eladrin" was a mistake, because the game already contained something by that name. I mean, how difficult can it be to re-label something?

Halflings and gnomes, in particular, have been wildly reinterpreted in different settings and editions. Is that as problematic for you?

 

[GX.Sigma]

Halflings and gnomes, in particular, have been wildly reinterpreted in different settings and editions. Is that as problematic for you?

It's problematic for me. If someone asks me what a gnome is in D&D, I have no idea what to say.

 

[Alzrius]

It's problematic for me. If someone asks me what a gnome is in D&D, I have no idea what to say.

I don't either, but that's because gnomes have been so ill-defined in D&D across the board.

EDIT: Tinker gnomes notwithstanding.

 

[Mournblade94]

The Plane of Shadow dates back to 1st ed AD&D DDG. Only in 4e is it also the plane of death and undeath.

Yes they did.

It wasn't arbitrary. Worlds & Monsters states the rationale in great detail.

And what can I say - in my view it gave a lot more than it took away.

I read the World and Monsters guide. They explained it yes, but anyone can take an arbitrary change and explain it. It pretty much reads that designers had pet peeves with the great wheel, so they assumed everyone else would as well. The reasons for the change were bogus.

Fortunately people voted with their wallet on it.

 

[Mournblade94]

Change and canon.

Incremental evolutionary and organic change of canon usually seems okay.

Discordant jarring and contradictory change of canon usually seems bad.

Which is which usually seems to be the beauty in the eye of the beholder, and varies GREATLY from person/group to person/group.

That's my dogmatic assertion and decree for the day, and I'm sticking with it.

Agreed. Organic change is good.

Arbitrary change for the sake of a new edition is not. I think this is part of the problem 4e had. Maybe people would have been more apt to adopt it had they not just radically changed 2 settings (Planescape via axis cosmology, and Forgotten Realms developer change instead of having the writers change it.)

When those changes happen it sends the message that "this new system will not work with your old campaign."

It appears D&DNEXT is doing things correctly. At least with the Sundering of the FOrgotten Realms it appears they have learned. Hopefully they do the same with Planescape.

 

[GX.Sigma]

It appears D&DNEXT is doing things correctly. At least with the Sundering of the FOrgotten Realms it appears they have learned. Hopefully they do the same with Planescape.

James Wyatt has already talked about how they're doing the cosmology. Basically, there's no way to get from plane to plane without portals or magic, so it doesn't really matter if you imagine the outer planes as a great ring or as islands in an astral sea.

This squares pretty nicely with Planescape lore. Just because the Guvners like to think in terms of rings, that doesn't actually mean the planar diagram is a literal spatial relationship. Sure, you can get directly from Bytopia to Elysium on the Great Road, but you can also get directly from Olympus to Hades.

 

[Mournblade94]

James Wyatt has already talked about how they're doing the cosmology. Basically, there's no way to get from plane to plane without portals or magic, so it doesn't really matter if you imagine the outer planes as a great ring or as islands in an astral sea.

This squares pretty nicely with Planescape lore. Just because the Guvners like to think in terms of rings, that doesn't actually mean the planar diagram is a literal spatial relationship. Sure, you can get directly from Bytopia to Elysium on the Great Road, but you can also get directly from Olympus to Hades.

Pretty much the way I have always worked this. I am so far much happier with what I am hearing from the developers now than I was in 2008 with the preview guides.

 

[SkidAce]

Then you do what everyone using those monsters does in a post-Planescape world - you use them anyway, but without the Planescape baggage. You may have to put up with Planescape-savvy players making assumptions, but you had to do that already with most D&D creatures anyway.

This wins the thread.

 

[Dausuul]

James Wyatt has already talked about how they're doing the cosmology. Basically, there's no way to get from plane to plane without portals or magic, so it doesn't really matter if you imagine the outer planes as a great ring or as islands in an astral sea.

Do you happen to have a link to this? I'd be interested in seeing more details on their vision of the cosmology for 5E.

In particular, I'd like to know how they plan to handle the inner planes. The outer planes are simple enough to reconcile, but the World Axis really did a number on the inner planes of the Great Wheel. The elemental and para-elemental planes were thrown together, dumped into Limbo, and renamed the Elemental Chaos; the Negative Energy Plane merged with the Plane of Shadow to become the Shadowfell; the Positive Energy Plane was colonized from Arvandor and turned into the Feywild; and then the Shadowfell and the Feywild ganged up on the Ethereal Plane, killed it, and took its stuff.

I'm not sure how one sorts all that out in a single cosmology. It'd be easy enough to just present a list of inner planes and tell DMs to pick the ones they want to use and how they're connected, but how do you make one cohesive cosmology out of this mess?