We had a big Zhent arc, but they're probably finished with the Zhents for now. Currently the main active threats are (1) Thay, allied to Orcus and (2) the Shadovar of Netheril. Epic Tier is likely to feature escalating conflict between and with these two superpowers. I think the PCs could either ally with Netheril or end up opposing both groups. I like the Shadovar as they're easy to make morally ambiguous, whereas Thay/Orcus is pure evil and wants to create a world of Undeath.
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Thematic use of Epic Destinies - how have you used them in play?
- Thread starter S'mon
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A mechanical caution on this - you don't want the thematically climactic encounter to be mechanically underwhelming. But I've tended to find one-on-one fights in 4e can be a bit underwhelming.
You would want to somehow make this a joint endavour (so all the group's mechanical synergies etc come into play) yet stop the other PCs killstealing the main foe. I don't yet haev good advice on how to make this work - I've been struggling with it in my own 4e game - but if I come up with something that works I'll post it!
Manbearcat
Legend
My game features a pair of "duelist" characters so that works out as something of a gateway; highly mobile, high AC/Reflex strikers, forced movement powers, and with a few ways to access surges of their own volition. I wouldn't recommend the trope without that role as the featured player as they are both naturally mobile and deploy their payload without help/synergy requirements. If you can pull it off without that role specifically but with those tactical values (natural mobility, surge access, and independent damage deployment), that would work too.
I've done it a few times, posing those PCs against an Elite Skirmisher (for the same reasons as the PC) 1 level below them. A large arena with patches of hindering and difficult terrain, areas of partial concealment, clearly conveyed terrain powers and hazards to interact with and force the enemy into has been key. I playtested the fights beforehand to ensure these features were functional.
One final thing I did the second time around was use a series of scribed encounter cards specific to the arena that the player drew at the end of the round. These would do something like a gust of wind shifts the battlefield, stray arrow from the other skirmish, random forest minion creature appears and attacks, lightning strike shattering a tree limb, cloudburst causing partial concealment for 1 round, waterfall obstruction, deep water, slippery rocks etc. That helped to promote dynamism but wasn't mandatory so long as the other things were in play.
As far as the killstealing goes, one arena was on the ramparts/gatehouse of a stronghold with the other PCs (and their 2 companion characters) fighting in the courtyard. The second was in a forest, at the base of a waterfall with the PCs (and their 2 companion characters) divided by a switchback, second tier of the raging waterfall, but within eyeshot, fighting swarms. In both scenarios, they had their own fights to resolve that tested them to their limits. Further, one duel arena had a lot of obstruction from the other PCs while the other had a lot of concealment. One of the group fights ended just (1 round) before the duel ended but they didn't attempt to intervene as they knew the drill (and it would have taken a round or more to access the duel arena). I guess "knowing the drill" is key there. That, of course, will vary with group!
I've done it a few times, posing those PCs against an Elite Skirmisher (for the same reasons as the PC) 1 level below them. A large arena with patches of hindering and difficult terrain, areas of partial concealment, clearly conveyed terrain powers and hazards to interact with and force the enemy into has been key. I playtested the fights beforehand to ensure these features were functional.
One final thing I did the second time around was use a series of scribed encounter cards specific to the arena that the player drew at the end of the round. These would do something like a gust of wind shifts the battlefield, stray arrow from the other skirmish, random forest minion creature appears and attacks, lightning strike shattering a tree limb, cloudburst causing partial concealment for 1 round, waterfall obstruction, deep water, slippery rocks etc. That helped to promote dynamism but wasn't mandatory so long as the other things were in play.
As far as the killstealing goes, one arena was on the ramparts/gatehouse of a stronghold with the other PCs (and their 2 companion characters) fighting in the courtyard. The second was in a forest, at the base of a waterfall with the PCs (and their 2 companion characters) divided by a switchback, second tier of the raging waterfall, but within eyeshot, fighting swarms. In both scenarios, they had their own fights to resolve that tested them to their limits. Further, one duel arena had a lot of obstruction from the other PCs while the other had a lot of concealment. One of the group fights ended just (1 round) before the duel ended but they didn't attempt to intervene as they knew the drill (and it would have taken a round or more to access the duel arena). I guess "knowing the drill" is key there. That, of course, will vary with group!
I once saw an awesome duel in 4e; it was in my 'Southlands' Wilderlands-based sword & sorcery campaign - http://4esouthlands.blogspot.co.uk/. The PC, Varek of the Altanian Tigerclaw (ca 8th level Fighter) had challenged the enemy leader, the Neo-Nerathi commander Halvath Cormarrin (from Threats to the Nentir Vale) to a duel outside the walls of the Nerathi-besieged city of Bisgen. Varek had previously murdered ('executed') Halvath's wife and sister, so just as Varek anticipated even though Halvath had the strategic advantage he really had to accept the challenge for a chance to kill Varek.
The player didn't know if Varek could take Halvath one on one, and I certainly wasn't going to guarantee it, but it helped that although Halvath was higher level (10th level elite brute, but I halve monster hp) he was a Warlord type, so many of his powers weren't much use. It was a very tense, nailbiting fight, very close, and Varek was on his last legs when he finally took the enemy warlord's head - the Nerathi made him leave head & body behind so they could bury Halvath, after promising not to reanimate him.
I think it helped a lot that it was a player-initiated duel, with high stakes, an an uncertain outcome, and heavily tied into the developing themes of that campaign, which were inspired by the 1990s Bosnian war (Varek's player eventually had an epiphany: "There are no good guys here. Just us, and them". It took maybe 5 combat rounds, but it went pretty fast, I don't think the other players watching got bored.
Manbearcat
Legend
What is your PC makeup and which is the wallflower and the one that is disinterested in creating thematic hooks?
The Spellstorm Wizard player is a bit of a Watcher type - she likes blasting stuff, but doesn't seem interested in engaging with NPCs, exploring her background & destiny, etc. I generally don't worry about it as I have a large group.
The Monk no Bard no Warlord player frequently changes class, wanted to be an Archmage for no obvious reason, but loves playing his Lesbian Stripper Ninja type PC... he wants to make her a Revenant next, again for no obvious reason that I can see.
Manbearcat
Legend
LOL. This is great. I had this exact player, exactly 100 %, during my 3.x era. Hysterical. I mean who doesn't love Lesbian Stripper Ninja PCs?...especially this time of year.
I'll think on what you've got here and try to write something that may not suck to the point of uselessness tonight or tomorrow.
Did you use any particular techniques to make it more than just alternating attack and damage rolls? That has tended to be my problem with 1-on-1 duels.
[MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION]'s arena ideas a few posts above this one are examples of techniques that I need to think about for any future duels.
AIR duels in 3e were always pretty crap, to the extent that I recall in one 3.0 game the other players openly mocking the crappiness of it - two supposedly expert swashbucklers standing there carving hp off each other until one fell over. But 4e's Encounter & Daily powers (PC) and Recharge powers (NPC) made a very big difference, it felt a lot more interesting and dynamic. AIR both characters had push/slide powers and there was a real chance of pushing the other guy out of the combat field & into the attacker's own lines, which would have been bad, humiliating, and painful if not lethal.
We played today and things are looking up for her - she's just been recruited by the local 'Festhall' keeper as his Madam! He wanted someone with a strong track record in Human Resources...
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