Alright, so level with me...

[darjr]

I own the Level Up magazines from Goodman games, their 4e magazine. I've got three of em here and they have the GSL logo on the title page. Their free rpg day Amethyst/Immortals Handbook had the GSL logo on both front covers. I own several 4e Goodman games adventures, including Death Dealer. Looking at Mists of Madness and Punjar: The Tarnashed Jewel they do not have the GSL logo.

 

[S'mon]

Well, the other thing they did with 4E to help prevent retro-cloning down the line was extensively use specific naming conventions that would present copyright and trademark protections once the GSL is revoked. With early versions, there were only a handful of creature names and major characters names that are off limits under the OGL. With 4E, I cannot even begin to guess how many combat maneuvers, spells, and other things have names that would present stumbling blocks toward cloning.

Those names are not being used as trade marks under UK law, nor do they receive copyright protection under UK law, so [MENTION=87792]Neonchameleon[/MENTION], you should be fine.

Edit: I don't think they would be considered trade marks or copyright protected under US law either, as far as I can tell, The idea seems to have been to move 4e away from material covered by the OGL, but that only at best gives 4e the protection offered by regular copyright law, which in this area is pretty iffy.

 

[Mark CMG]

Those names are not being used as trade marks under UK law, nor do they receive copyright protection under UK law, so [MENTION=87792]Neonchameleon[/MENTION], you should be fine.

Edit: I don't think they would be considered trade marks or copyright protected under US law either, as far as I can tell, The idea seems to have been to move 4e away from material covered by the OGL, but that only at best gives 4e the protection offered by regular copyright law, which in this area is pretty iffy.

It's my understanding that it is the basis for the sending of cease & desist letters which closed down websites like the one that was freely sharing "powers" cards of their own design.

 

[Sunseeker]

It's my understanding that it is the basis for the sending of cease & desist letters which closed down websites like the one that was freely sharing "powers" cards of their own design.

Yeah but you have to understand that "cease and desist" letters don't actually hold any legal power. They're a "request" from the copyright holder with a threat of legal action if you refuse to do as they ask.

 

[Mark CMG]

Yeah but you have to understand that "cease and desist" letters don't actually hold any legal power. They're a "request" from the copyright holder with a threat of legal action if you refuse to do as they ask.

There's a difference between legal power and legal authority. In any event, implying that WotC has sent cease and desist letters when they had no legitimate grounds to follow through with legal action seems like an invitation to an argument I don't want to have with you.

 

[Sunseeker]

There's a difference between legal power and legal authority. In any event, implying that WotC has sent cease and desist letters when they had no legitimate grounds to follow through with legal action seems like an invitation to an argument I don't want to have with you.

Which was not my implication. It was simply a statement of facts that cease and desist letters on their own can't shut people down.

 

[Mark CMG]

Which was not my implication. It was simply a statement of facts that cease and desist letters on their own can't shut people down.

It's the legal grounds behind the cease and desist letter that gives the cease and desist letter its legal power. But, again, its not an argument that is fruitful for this thread.

 

[S'mon]

It's my understanding that it is the basis for the sending of cease & desist letters which closed down websites like the one that was freely sharing "powers" cards of their own design.

If it's freely provided it's probably not commercial use, any more than a bulletin board post is, so can't (legally) claim trade mark infringement. If there was commercial use of the mark then they could make a TM claim.

If the power cards reproduced the text of the powers that would be a reasonable copyright claim. A direct lift of a paragraph of power text looks like a copyright infringement to me.

The reality of course is that websites will take down content on a C&D notice even if there is no conceivable legitimate claim.

 

[Mark CMG]

If it's freely provided it's probably not commercial use, any more than a bulletin board post is, so can't (legally) claim trade mark infringement. If there was commercial use of the mark then they could make a TM claim.

Not quite, in that even a non-commercial use of a trademark can dilute that trademark and thus needs to be legally defended to ensure the strength of the trademark remains.

If the power cards reproduced the text of the powers that would be a reasonable copyright claim. A direct lift of a paragraph of power text looks like a copyright infringement to me.

Indeed, which ties back to the specific naming conventions used by WotC for powers, spells, etc. and how those naming conventions are used to lock down copyright of said sections of WotC IP, and in turn presents legal avenues for WotC to make claims as to infringement.

The reality of course is that websites will take down content on a C&D notice even if there is no conceivable legitimate claim.

The reality is that it would be foolish to advise someone to take chances on future cases based on untested claims of the legitimacy of previous cases, hence my previous cautioning to avoid discussion of cease and desist letters as if they don't carry legal legitimacy.

 

[Sunseeker]

The reality is that it would be foolish to advise someone to take chances on future cases based on untested claims of the legitimacy of previous cases, hence my previous cautioning to avoid discussion of cease and desist letters as if they don't carry legal legitimacy.

It is equally foolish to assume all C&D claims are legitimate. Many are not, which is one of the starring reasons large corporations have developed such a massive ego these days. If anyone receives a C&D letter, your first step is always to contact a lawyer, then ascertain the legal legitimacy behind the letter and only after that has been established(which will probably necessitate a court case), then remove content.