D&D 5E Final playtest packet due in mid September.

[pemerton]

We're not participating in a playtest, we're market research. We're part of a mass focus group.

I don't know much about the methodology of playtesting in game design. But it strike me as pretty obvious that the playtest has pretty big marketing components, both advertising and market research. That was plain from the start, and what else would you expect?

EDIT: Some other stuff that makes the marketing dimension of the playtest pretty clear:

From L&L:

This phase of the playtest was all about nailing the feel of D&D. D&D isn't simply a set of rules. It's a tool for creativity. What it does is important, but how it does it is just as critical. I also believe that D&D had wandered away from what players are looking for from it. The public playtest was our way to get back in touch with you in a way that ensured the next generation of D&D tabletop roleplay gaming was relevant to you.

And from another playtest thread:

Mike Mearls mikemearls 4 Aug
ReinhartLogos internal = proof of functionality. Can players use and understand? External = proof of value. Does this improve the game?

<snip>

So basically, they try to use the internal playtest to catch the lion's share of broken stuff and things that don't work as intended. Some things slip through that net. The public playtest is used to see how the public playtesters respond to the material, if its popular enough to go into the game, and also catch things that aren't working as intended.

 

[Lord_Blacksteel]

I get the impression that they learned their lesson from the 4E license fiasco. One of the reasons 4E fell flat was that nobody was writing anything for it but WotC. If they had half the companies writing product for 4E that ended up writing for Pathfinder, I think it could be argued that 4E would be in a much better position now.

As someone mentioned above there were 3rd party adventures and race/class books published early on for 4E. That said I agree the license was a barrier. A sometimes-overlooked obstacle is that nothing from 3rd party character books was added to the character builder and that pretty much killed those types of supplements.

I'd love to see them go back to the OGL but I doubt the larger corporate elements will let that happen again.

I'm sure there will be some kind of online subscription model support program, but with the simplified character building process (compared to 4E) it may not be as essential with Next as it was considered to be with the last edition.

 

[Lord_Blacksteel]

Once a group is involved in a campaign, it will be hard to pull them away. Groups have already had a year to wrap up existing campaigns and start new ones. And after so many people were burned by 4e I can see a large percentage holding back until reviews come in and the internet nerd gestalt gives their collective opinion.

I agree with the time commitment comments, but those same groups have now been given notice that there's a new version of D&D coming in the May-Gen Con time frame next year. Also, what games are they wrapping up? D&D? If they mainly play D&D I suspect a new edition of D&D will be under discussion when the time comes - to either convert or start a new campaign.

In contrast with your "sour grapes" theory I suspect the people who didn't like 4E will be pretty interested in Next: they didn't like the game, so the company killed it off early and started publicly testing and discussing a new edition that's a lot more like the previous editions. WOTC listened and did exactly what they should have done given the circumstances. Given two years to talk it up and let 4E fade into history I think any lingering resentment will be inconsequential by the time it launches.

Also remember that there are supposed to be 5 Sundering adventure packs coming out including stats for Next. #1 is out, #2 is coming in October, and then 3 more on a schedule we have not seen. That may be a way for them to add material to that final packet if they feel a need to get something out there.

 

[TwoSix]

Basically, your attention right now isn't really material for them. Your attention when they start selling books is. Any pattern that has your attention at that time will serve.

As much as I am NOT on the 5e bandwagon, I think the playtest has done a decent job to make people engaged enough to be interested in seeing how the final product will turn out, even if the motivation is purely schadenfreude. I'm not particularly interested in the 5e playtest right now, as I have several games I'm interested in running/playing (hello, 13th Age!), but I know come summer of 2014 I'll be checking this site daily like it's 1999.

 

[Jester David]

I don't know much about the methodology of playtesting in game design. But it strike me as pretty obvious that the playtest has pretty big marketing components, both advertising and market research. That was plain from the start, and what else would you expect?

Amusingly the second person you quoted said this:

So basically, they try to use the internal playtest to catch the lion's share of broken stuff and things that don't work as intended. Some things slip through that net. The public playtest is used to see how the public playtesters respond to the material, if its popular enough to go into the game, and also catch things that aren't working as intended.

This acknowledges things are being missed by the internal playtesters. Which is my worry. Unless they expand the internal playtest or really, really make them focus on catching imbalance things might be missed.

Assuming a GenCon release they have until February to write and test the book. Assuming they spend three months actually writing all the rules and revising (including September) they'll have four maybe four-and-a-half months to test.

Assuming they don't add any class other than the bard they have nine classes. Which means they have to really test two classes from levels 1 to 20 each month. Or rather, test and then retest as you cannot just make a change and hope it's no balanced. WotC has a long history of overcompensating when nerfing an overpowered option.
Oh, and smack at the end of that testing is the Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years trifecta of work killing.
That's a lot of work for the internal playtest and friends and family.

 

[Lord_Blacksteel]

That's a lot of work for the internal playtest and friends and family.

Well they have said this today:

In terms of scope, this upcoming phase of the playtest is at least as large as the playtest for 3rd Edition, if not larger.

See here for the full rundown:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20130819

 

[Jester David]

I agree with the time commitment comments, but those same groups have now been given notice that there's a new version of D&D coming in the May-Gen Con time frame next year. Also, what games are they wrapping up? D&D? If they mainly play D&D I suspect a new edition of D&D will be under discussion when the time comes - to either convert or start a new campaign.

Well, we know 2014 but don't know when. May to August spans four months, or four to sixteen sessions. That's a big window to plan to end your campaign.

In contrast with your "sour grapes" theory I suspect the people who didn't like 4E will be pretty interested in Next: they didn't like the game, so the company killed it off early and started publicly testing and discussing a new edition that's a lot more like the previous editions. WOTC listened and did exactly what they should have done given the circumstances. Given two years to talk it up and let 4E fade into history I think any lingering resentment will be inconsequential by the time it launches.

That's very true.
I imagine WotC is kinda caught in a no-win situation.

Also remember that there are supposed to be 5 Sundering adventure packs coming out including stats for Next. #1 is out, #2 is coming in October, and then 3 more on a schedule we have not seen. That may be a way for them to add material to that final packet if they feel a need to get something out there.

I heard there were only three adventures. I know there are five novels though.

 

[jodyjohnson]

I'm curious how many Sundering adventures there will be. We still have only 2 on the schedule -- one out now (or tomorrow) and one in November.

Nothing official beyond that.

However the Encounters flyer from June was saying 5 adventures as the next Encounters seasons.

We're 3 months away from Season 2/Sundering adventure 2 and I still don't know what level it is for.

Frankly, not very excited about yet another 1-3 level adventure. Much less 4 more.

 

[Jester David]

Well they have said this today:


In terms of scope, this upcoming phase of the playtest is at least as large as the playtest for 3rd Edition, if not larger.


See here for the full rundown:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20130819

Considering 3e needed a revision after two years and had some pretty major flaws, this somehow does not fill me with confidence.

In fairness, I think players have a better eye towards balance than during the 3e playtest and have had a year to get familiar with the base rules.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

This acknowledges things are being missed by the internal playtesters. Which is my worry. Unless they expand the internal playtest or really, really make them focus on catching imbalance things might be missed.

In L&L he stated that the next phase of playtesting can be boring and that then planned playtest is to be as large, if not larger, than the one for 3rd Edition. The "boring" comment seems to me an opportunity to contact him and request becoming a part of the next phase. Can't hurt to ask, the worst he can say is no.