ICv2 has D&D in third place after Star Wars

[Kinak]

Congrats to everyone on the list!

Between the reprints and some people surely still buying 4e, I'm not terribly surprised to see WotC still on the list. If anything, I'm more surprised FFG jumped over them. Even with new product to sell, it takes a lot to beat that sort of market penetration and name recognition.

I don't think it counts PDF's and I'd be floored if it included DDI. Nor do I think that it includes amazon or it's ilk.

Or direct sales, which means the numbers are wildly off for Paizo (subscriptions/direct sales, PDFs) and WotC (DDI/subscriptions, PDFs).

That said, I think it's important which games are doing well at actual game stores. A lot of sales of a given game at that store usually means an active community, which means people can drop in.

Cheers!
Kinak

 

[MerricB]

I don't think it counts PDF's and I'd be floored if it included DDI. Nor do I think that it includes amazon or it's ilk.

It doesn't. It doesn't count DDI, nor does it count people who buy directly from Paizo (which I guess is a fair chunk of their market). It doesn't include amazon.

Instead, it relies entirely on a small selection of game stores returning surveys.

 

[MerricB]

So, this is for the Summer of 2013 - what has D&D put out? I remember buying the the S1-4 reprint around March, but what else have they put out?

The main sales would be for...
... Core D&D 4E books
... 1E Reprint books (Against the Slave Lords)
... 2E Reprint books (Core Rulebooks)
... 3E Reprint books (Spell Compendium, Magic Item Compendium)
... Murder in Baldur's Gate

All of these were released during or just before this reporting season - and Core books do have ongoing sales.

Cheers!

 

[TrippyHippy]

The #5 position changes all the time.

The WH40K titles have generally been about 3rd place though - behind Pathfinder and D&D - and apparently higher in the UK.

However, I think it's probably a factor that they haven't had a new core game release this year (Only War was last year), and Fantasy Flight Games have had a lot more sales based on their new Star Wars line instead. Incidentally, I'm selling mine for half price if anyone wants it! Perfectly good condition and new, just I can't get anyone to play a game with it.

 

[delericho]

Seems like it also gives lie to the idea that D&D will "die" if D&DNext doesn't set sales records when it's released.

Not really. Bear in mind that the goal for D&D isn't "do well in the ICv2 chart", it's "sell $X". Given how small the RPG pond is, it may be that even #1 in the chart, or even 100% market share, just isn't enough for a fish as big as D&D.

When WotC still appears third on the list based upon sales of books released months (if not years ) ago, surpassing all the so-called "fantasy heartbreaker" RPGs that are supposedly now taking D&D's place...

And again, not really. Remember that the ICv2 chart is based on bricks'n'mortar stores and surveys. It doesn't include electronic vendors such as Amazon, direct sales, or subscriptions. And it also doesn't include Kickstarter.

That means it has always been an imperfect tool, and becoming less useful as time goes on. For a game like "Numenera", for example, I would expect sales in game stores to barely be a blip on the radar - it's driven by Kickstarter.

(The irony that this is the exact same argument deployed by pro-4e Edition Warriors when Pathfinder first hit #1 is not lost on me. )

I was thinking that too. However, those books are god-awful expensive.

And, IMO, not so good in other respects. Still, they were popular.

The #5 position changes all the time.

Indeed. But weren't the 40K RPG books #3 not so long ago? Or have I just not been paying attention?

 

[Bluenose]

So, this is for the Summer of 2013 - what has D&D put out? I remember buying the the S1-4 reprint around March, but what else have they put out? And I don't think this counts DDI subscriptions.

I have to wonder how small a pie all of this is and what the $ / % difference is between the top 3. Especially with as little as I can remember D&D putting out right now.

Wasn't there a recent report that Pathfinder or Paizo reached $10,000,000 in sales, or something like that? That's less than a tenth of Games Workshop turnover, I should note. As a market, it's tiny.

Indeed. But weren't the 40K RPG books #3 not so long ago? Or have I just not been paying attention?

They have been at #3, I think. The Star Wars RPG is getting more attention from FFG right now, so I suspect a reduced amount of 40K books are coming out.

 

[DEFCON 1]

That means it has always been an imperfect tool, and becoming less useful as time goes on. For a game like "Numenera", for example, I would expect sales in game stores to barely be a blip on the radar - it's driven by Kickstarter.

(The irony that this is the exact same argument deployed by pro-4e Edition Warriors when Pathfinder first hit #1 is not lost on me. )

Which was really my point. All the doomsaying that went on when D&D was #2 on the list when they had product on the shelves is the same doomsaying that is going on when D&D is #3 with little no no product on the shelves.

Some people want so desperately to run down WotC because of perceived slights the company has made against them that they manage to take any situation that is occurring and twist it into "D&D IS DYING!!!" that I can't help but point out some of the flaws in their thinking.

 

[delericho]

Which was really my point. All the doomsaying that went on when D&D was #2 on the list when they had product on the shelves is the same doomsaying that is going on when D&D is #3 with little no no product on the shelves.

Ah, I see. I missed that. Sorry.

Some people want so desperately to run down WotC because of perceived slights the company has made against them that they manage to take any situation that is occurring and twist it into "D&D IS DYING!!!" that I can't help but point out some of the flaws in their thinking.

Indeed.

 

[Gundark]

That seems like a rather rosey read to me.

The core 4e books should ideally be an evergreen product. I do think that current players are likely to already have the books, but I would be much more heartened if WotC kept their place as #2.

Star Wars was a big title and they had a summer release. I would be much more surprised if FFG can keep #2 spot. I expect Fate Core to not stay on the list as well. I am more impressed with The Iron Kingdoms, although they had a majore release during this time period too.

No new product and holding #3 is a Big Deal

 

[Morrus]

Star Wars was a big title and they had a summer release. I would be much more surprised if FFG can keep #2 spot. I expect Fate Core to not stay on the list as well. I am more impressed with The Iron Kingdoms, although they had a majore release during this time period too.

No new product and holding #3 is a Big Deal

Star Wars is also one of the biggest media brands on the planet. D&D is insignificant compared to the power of....