D&D 5E I just don't buy the reasoning behind "damage on a miss".

[herrozerro]

Because errata exists doesn't mean anything is fixed. Am I reading that argument right?

 

[Herschel]

Show me somewhere in the PHB or DM's Guide about being able to target objects with spells such as Fireball.

I can't stand 4th edition but I have played it for years. I'm calling you out right now to prove me wrong.

Also, "well it doesn't say you can't do it" is not proof.

1. I'm calling out you playing 4E "for years" if you "couldn't stand it". Your lack of knowledge with the system strongly indicates you're not being genuine and your rants would indicate you would not tolerate playing it.

I'm sure you're also a ninja astrophysicist with a hobby degree in neurosurgery.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

1. I'm calling out you playing 4E "for years" if you "couldn't stand it". Your lack of knowledge with the system strongly indicates you're not being genuine and your rants would indicate you would not tolerate playing it.

I'm sure you're also a ninja astrophysicist with a hobby degree in neurosurgery.

What are you on about?

You do know you don't need the Rules Compendium to play the game nor do you need to go online and use the updates to play.

 

[TwoSix]

Are you on something?

You do know you don't need the Rules Compendium to play the game nor do you need to go online and use the updates to play.

Nah, he's just saying there's nothing in your online personality to indicate you would go with the flow and play something you hate.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

Nah, he's just saying there's nothing in your online personality to indicate you would go with the flow and play something you hate.

We have a guy who spent a lot of money on the game so we didn't want all that money to go to waste so we played it.

 

[Imaro]

Because errata exists doesn't mean anything is fixed. Am I reading that argument right?

The argument, at least for me, was never abut whether it was fixed later or not... the argument was that as originally written a player could not choose to target objects in D&D 4e unless object was listed as a valid target. The second part of the argument is that even with the errata it is the DM who decides whether objects can be damaged by powers. Some posters such as [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION], [MENTION=2525]Mistwell[/MENTION] and [MENTION=205]TwoSix[/MENTION] appear to be arguing that one has always been able to attack and damage objects in the original rules as published (without errata) because of various reasosn including... the fire keyword or the damaging objects rules in the DMG. However, I (and others) see nothing in the fire keyword or the damaging objects rules that allow players to choose to target/damage an object unlike editions 1e to 3.x that specifically called out such things in spell descriptions.

 

[Imaro]

I'm interested to meet this hypothetical 4e players who say that fireball can't set anything on fire. Not just people who read 4e and asserted it without playing the game.

I have literally seen DM's, when I played in encounters games, that did not allow spells to do anything outside their specified rules... including damaging objetcs. Now you can claim it was because of the context (it being an encounters game) but the whole point of encounters is to get new people into D&D 4e and how it is experienced there will shape how they run their games. So yes I have experienced this and I have played (and for a short time ran) 4e.

 

[Mistwell]

I don't want to specialise in either of those styles, I want the GWF deal.

Again, two other options can be chosen while wielding a weapon with two hands. That you don't like them isn't really what we're discussing. You are given three options, probably more in the final book, and only one of them do you have an issue with how it works. So, just choose another one. You kept saying forced into choosing it - but there is no force there when you have other options even for the concept you're interested in (wielding a weapon with two hands). If there were to GWF option to begin with, and you had only protection or defense to choose, I am pretty sure this thread would not exist and everyone would just shrug about two-handed wielders being defensive minded.

 

[Mistwell]

Which was subject to DM discretion so using it as an argument is pretty much invalid.

Psst. That's the same rule as other prior versions of D&D dating back to Basic/Expert. It's almost always simply been DM's discretion. If lighting things on fire automatically without DM's discretion is an important thing for your RPG, maybe there is another game you prefer?

 

[ForeverSlayer]

Psst. That's the same rule as other prior versions of D&D dating back to Basic/Expert. It's almost always simply been DM's discretion. If lighting things on fire automatically without DM's discretion is an important thing for your RPG, maybe there is another game you prefer?

Emmmmm no. You should go back and read up on the previous rules again.

They weren't at the DM's discretion.

Fireball (3.5 D&D)
Evocation [Fire]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area: 20-ft.-radius spread
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes
A fireball spell is an explosion of flame that
detonates with a low roar and deals 1d6
points of fire damage per caster level
(maximum 10d6) to every creature within
the area. Unattended objects also take this
damage. The explosion creates almost no
pressure.
You point your finger and determine
the range (distance and height) at which
the fireball is to burst. A glowing, pea-sized
bead streaks from the pointing digit and,
unless it impacts upon a material body or
solid barrier prior to attaining the
prescribed range, blossoms into the fireball
at that point. (An early impact results in an
early detonation.) If you attempt to send
the bead through a narrow passage, such as
through an arrow slit, you must “hit” the
opening with a ranged touch attack, or else
the bead strikes the barrier and detonates
prematurely.
The fireball sets fire to combustibles and
damages objects in the area. It can melt
metals with low melting points, such as
lead, gold, copper, silver, and bronze. If the
damage caused to an interposing barrier
shatters or breaks through it, the fireball
may continue beyond the barrier if the
area permits; otherwise it stops at the
barrier just as any other spell effect does.
Material Component: A tiny ball of bat
guano and sulfur.

Well well, would you look at that?