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D&D 5E Forgotten Realms

... but his attitude lately about how he should be "in charge" even though he sold the rights is ludicrous.
"Attitude" lately?

OMG like are we all back in high school or something?


Here's what we know about Ed Greenwood:

At some point he decided to sell his setting to TSR, under conditions that include what Scrivener mentioned above, as well as the condition that whatever Ed says, writes or otherwise communicates about the Realms is official (i.e. canon), unless or until a published source from TSR (later WotC) overwrites or contradicts it.

So yes, he sold the setting, but he never, ever, stopped having a voice in its creation.


And while I'm at it...

According to Ed, he sold the setting to see the Realms ascend to the next level (the stuff earlier in the thread about making a "quick buck" is a dainty bit of prevarication). That is, to see it grow and expand as other people joined Ed in the sandbox and they all worked on the Realms together.

While this was going on, Ed was the traffic cop for the Realms, coordinating and making sure Novel Author A's work didn't conflict with Designer B's work. He also continued to run Realms games in libraries, run his home game with his original players and act as freelance designer and friendly consultant for TSR employees and associated freelancers who worked on the Realms and needed world information and advice that only Ed could provide.

Over time Ed's involvement in the Realms has hit bumps in the road. TSR's code of ethics, for example, did not allow evil to win or be portrayed positively. All of the gray that Ed's initial Realms design included was set aside.

TSR's decision to focus on characters like Elminster and the Chosen of Mystra was not something Ed would have done; he'd have focused more on the likes of everyday folk like Durnan or Mirt, but TSR wanted what they wanted and Ed delivered.

Eventually the job of Realms traffic cop was handed off to someone else (Steven Schend, IIRC) and the Realms continued to grow and change as more people were brought on board to work on it and the setting itself was made (in 2nd Edition AD&D) to be the kitchen sink for D&D: literally, if it's in D&D it's in the Realms.

More than once Ed was offered assignments that, had he not written them, TSR would have found someone else to do. But Ed stayed on.

By 3rd Edition there was no longer (to my knowledge) a single Realms Traffic Cop and the Realms continued to change. And Ed stayed on, guiding, assisting, writing and designing around the work of considerable talents like Eric Boyd and Richard Baker.

When 4E came around, it's clear now that Ed was not happy with the changes. What he didn't do, however, was publicly bitch and moan that he was the boss and WotC were screwing up.

On the contrary, Ed was front and center at GenCon 2007 at the Realms seminar. He was on hand to introduce what would become the post-Spellplague Realms and after, online, he strongly encouraged people to wait and see what WotC did with the Realms before they decided whether or not to write the Realms off.

He saw his view as a much diminished one and even said so online, but still worked on projects like Returned Abeir and the Waterdeep Bible, the later used by the authors participating in the Ed Greenwood Presents: Waterdeep series of books.

He also continued to answer fan questions at the Candlekeep.com forums--something he's been doing for years.

Once WotC experienced an attitude adjustment vis-a-vis the post-Spellplague Realms, Ed jumped right back in, authoring a trio of Realms books and penning a popular, long-running series of Eye on the Realms articles for the ezine versions of Dragon and Dungeon magazines.

All in all he's been a consistent champion of the setting, made himself available to and otherwise helped scores of designers and writers and fans, provided volumes of information to TSR and WotC--much of it unpublished and therefore NDA'd to this day--and consistently treated people with respect, even when he disagreed with them.

This last, I think, is Ed's most admirable and enduring trait.

Anyway, the bit about Greenwood copping an attitude is pure fiction, and should be ignored.
 

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(snip lots of good stuff) All in all he's been a consistent champion of the setting, made himself available to and otherwise helped scores of designers and writers and fans, provided volumes of information to TSR and WotC--much of it unpublished and therefore NDA'd to this day--and consistently treated people with respect, even when he disagreed with them.

This last, I think, is Ed's most admirable and enduring trait.

Anyway, the bit about Greenwood copping an attitude is pure fiction, and should be ignored.

Here, here!
 

"Attitude" lately?
Here's what we know about Ed Greenwood:

At some point he decided to sell his setting to TSR, under conditions that include what Scrivener mentioned above, as well as the condition that whatever Ed says, writes or otherwise communicates about the Realms is official (i.e. canon), unless or until a published source from TSR (later WotC) overwrites or contradicts it.

So yes, he sold the setting, but he never, ever, stopped having a voice in its creation.
This I hadn't heard before. In fact, I had heard the exact opposite. That Ed had sold all rights off with no agreement that anything he writes or communicates is canon. In fact, I've seen Ed say, (and I'm paraphrasing from memory here) "WOTC can do whatever they want with the Realms, it isn't mine anymore. I just don't have to agree with it. If they want me to help they know where to find me" in response to a question about 4e Realms.

I know that TSR and WOTC in the past have deferred to his judgement in a lot of things. However, I don't believe there's any legal requirement for them to do so. Nor do they have to specifically overwrite anything he says in order to avoid it being canon.

I do know that he's been a little more outspoken than he normally is about the Realms and the direction that WOTC is taking because of 4e. Though I've never seen him cop an attitude regarding it. His opinion is very much what I wrote above. He feels that he wouldn't have made the same changes as WOTC but it doesn't matter what his opinion is because he doesn't own the Realms.
 

This I hadn't heard before. In fact, I had heard the exact opposite. That Ed had sold all rights off with no agreement that anything he writes or communicates is canon. In fact, I've seen Ed say, (and I'm paraphrasing from memory here) "WOTC can do whatever they want with the Realms, it isn't mine anymore. I just don't have to agree with it. If they want me to help they know where to find me" in response to a question about 4e Realms.

I know that TSR and WOTC in the past have deferred to his judgement in a lot of things. However, I don't believe there's any legal requirement for them to do so. Nor do they have to specifically overwrite anything he says in order to avoid it being canon.(snip)

If you hang out at Candlekeep at all, you will be reminded not infrequently that anything Ed says is canon until formally contradicted by something published by WotC. It is part of the contract covering the Realms.

As for the WotC being able to do what they like, yes, of course they can... but Ed does have residual rights as I mentioned in an earlier reply (he has a right to be consulted - which means basically nothing - and the Realms reverts to his ownership if nothing is published for a certain period of time [a year, IIRC]).
 

If you hang out at Candlekeep at all, you will be reminded not infrequently that anything Ed says is canon until formally contradicted by something published by WotC. It is part of the contract covering the Realms.
Are we sure this is actually part of the contract and isn't just a policy of the people at Candlekeep who respect Ed's opinion so much that they consider it canon?
 


Once WotC experienced an attitude adjustment vis-a-vis the post-Spellplague Realms, Ed jumped right back in, authoring a trio of Realms books and penning a popular, long-running series of Eye on the Realms articles for the ezine versions of Dragon and Dungeon magazines.

So as long as he bad mouths what you bad mouth he's a "stand up guy" got it.
 

"Attitude" lately?

OMG like are we all back in high school or something?


Here's what we know about Ed Greenwood:

At some point he decided to sell his setting to TSR, under conditions that include what Scrivener mentioned above, as well as the condition that whatever Ed says, writes or otherwise communicates about the Realms is official (i.e. canon), unless or until a published source from TSR (later WotC) overwrites or contradicts it.

So yes, he sold the setting, but he never, ever, stopped having a voice in its creation.


And while I'm at it...

According to Ed, he sold the setting to see the Realms ascend to the next level (the stuff earlier in the thread about making a "quick buck" is a dainty bit of prevarication). That is, to see it grow and expand as other people joined Ed in the sandbox and they all worked on the Realms together.

In real words, he wanted the money and recognition. I don't think anyone faults him for this.
While this was going on, Ed was the traffic cop for the Realms, coordinating and making sure Novel Author A's work didn't conflict with Designer B's work. He also continued to run Realms games in libraries, run his home game with his original players and act as freelance designer and friendly consultant for TSR employees and associated freelancers who worked on the Realms and needed world information and advice that only Ed could provide.

Over time Ed's involvement in the Realms has hit bumps in the road. TSR's code of ethics, for example, did not allow evil to win or be portrayed positively. All of the gray that Ed's initial Realms design included was set aside.

TSR's decision to focus on characters like Elminster and the Chosen of Mystra was not something Ed would have done; he'd have focused more on the likes of everyday folk like Durnan or Mirt, but TSR wanted what they wanted and Ed delivered.

Eventually the job of Realms traffic cop was handed off to someone else (Steven Schend, IIRC) and the Realms continued to grow and change as more people were brought on board to work on it and the setting itself was made (in 2nd Edition AD&D) to be the kitchen sink for D&D: literally, if it's in D&D it's in the Realms.

More than once Ed was offered assignments that, had he not written them, TSR would have found someone else to do. But Ed stayed on.

By 3rd Edition there was no longer (to my knowledge) a single Realms Traffic Cop and the Realms continued to change. And Ed stayed on, guiding, assisting, writing and designing around the work of considerable talents like Eric Boyd and Richard Baker.

When 4E came around, it's clear now that Ed was not happy with the changes. What he didn't do, however, was publicly bitch and moan that he was the boss and WotC were screwing up.

On the contrary, Ed was front and center at GenCon 2007 at the Realms seminar. He was on hand to introduce what would become the post-Spellplague Realms and after, online, he strongly encouraged people to wait and see what WotC did with the Realms before they decided whether or not to write the Realms off.

He saw his view as a much diminished one and even said so online, but still worked on projects like Returned Abeir and the Waterdeep Bible, the later used by the authors participating in the Ed Greenwood Presents: Waterdeep series of books.

He also continued to answer fan questions at the Candlekeep.com forums--something he's been doing for years.

Once WotC experienced an attitude adjustment vis-a-vis the post-Spellplague Realms, Ed jumped right back in, authoring a trio of Realms books and penning a popular, long-running series of Eye on the Realms articles for the ezine versions of Dragon and Dungeon magazines.

All in all he's been a consistent champion of the setting, made himself available to and otherwise helped scores of designers and writers and fans, provided volumes of information to TSR and WotC--much of it unpublished and therefore NDA'd to this day--and consistently treated people with respect, even when he disagreed with them.

This last, I think, is Ed's most admirable and enduring trait.

Anyway, the bit about Greenwood copping an attitude is pure fiction, and should be ignored.


This post is so full of blind, fanboy rhetoric as to be ridiculous.

'If Ed hadn't written it somebody else would have' was not because he was such an altruistic "Champion of the Realms".

Mod Note: I gave a previous warning about remaining civil - calling the opinions of other blind fanboy rhetoric is decidedly *not* civil. Cool it, already. Last warning. ~Umbran
 
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So as long as he bad mouths what you bad mouth he's a "stand up guy" got it.

You know, Hershel, from the beginning of this thread, you have been making sweeping generalizations putting down people.

In your opinion, only a very vocal minority of people didn't like FR4e and their only credit is that they are loud.

Then, of course, you dismiss any knowledgeable testimony supporting the idea that FR4e had issues/poor implementation as sour grapes but somehow embrace any similar testimony supporting your point of view as holy writ.

Then, there is this quote above.

Kinda strange, because the very vocal minority in THIS thread is YOU, the guy who seems to have sour grapes is YOU and the person who seems to think someone is a "stand up guy" when the person supports your ideas is YOU.

Example? The fact that the people who KNOW how FR 4e fared say it needs to be fixed is attributed to "their need to bring everyone together". To you, it's an after-the-fact justification instead of the very reason why they are doing it. They couldn't POSSIBLY be telling the truth: FR4e fared poorly and was not well received. They're LYING! so says Hershel!

Tell ya what, when you can support/PROVE your allegations, I'll listen to you.
Until then, the people in the know and their actions seem to indicate that
  • FR4e is/was broken and needs to be fixed.
  • The decision to "fix" FR was based on it being broken.

Until you can demonstrate/support bad faith on their part, I will assume that "broken" justified "fixing it" instead of the position you seem to be supporting where "need to sell more books" justified "saying it's broken".

You seem to be mad that the "unwashed masses" didn't agree with you and a product you seemed to like tanked. Well, I'm sorry. The masses have voted with their feet/$$$ and left FR 4e in droves. You might disagree, as is your right, but WOTC is a company that, to survive, must follow the desires of their clients and, based on Wyatt/Salvatore/Greenwood 's comments in the videos above, the need to roll back/fix FR4e is clear to them thus supporting the premise that FR4e did NOT succeed.

Unless, of course, you can point us all to any (recent) evidence to the contrary?


EDIT:
I might also add that I left FR back in 2e when I had a pathological need to follow the meta-plot and the glut of FR books was driving me mad and making me broke.

I came back to FR when I had matured to the point where I could "let go" of the need to buy everything and simply have a short, well defined list of source material and ignore the rest.

It's also on of the reasons why I like PF: it's the end result of DND 3.5.It's stable, if you will, and I won't have to buy any more books. It's already been "fixed"
 
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I used to buy lots of 3e FR books, love the setting and my best campaigns were based there, haven't bought any 4e realms book, I realy hated what they did with it and even though I played 4e since it came out I couldnt stomach what they did to the realms.

Warder
 

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