D&D 5E Why the claim of combat and class balance between the classes is mainly a forum issue. (In my opinion)

[XunValdorl_of_Kilsek]

Let me show you.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Examplor the Pacifist, level 5
Human, Wizard
Arcane Implement Mastery Option: Staff of Defense

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 11, CON 15, DEX 14, INT 19, WIS 10, CHA 10

AC: 20 Fort: 17 Ref: 19 Will: 17
HP: 46 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 11

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +11, Diplomacy +7, History +11, Insight +7, Religion +11

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +4, Athletics +2, Bluff +2, Dungeoneering +2, Endurance +4, Heal +2, Intimidate +2, Nature +2, Perception +2, Stealth +4, Streetwise +2, Thievery +4

POWERS
Wizard Utility: Spook
Wizard Utility: Prestidigitation
Wizard Utility: Light
Wizard Utility: Mage Hand
Wizard Attack 1: Sleep
Wizard Attack 1: Hypnotism
Wizard Attack 1: Howling Wall
Wizard Attack 1: Illusory Obstacles
Wizard Attack 1: Bewitching Charm
Wizard Utility 2: Instant Friends
Wizard Utility 2: Shield
Wizard Attack 3: Blissful Ignorance
Wizard Attack 5: Visions of Avarice
Wizard Attack 5: Web

====== End ======


I edited out some of the irrelevant stuff for brevity's sake. What we have here is a 5th level 4e wizard with not a single damaging power. It took me maybe four minutes to make. Can't make a wizard with half the powers doing no damage on a bet? I'll take that bet. What did I win?





Ah yes, when the debate goes against you we throw out the ad hominems. Call into question the validity of the argument by questioning the validity of the person himself. Predictable but still has a charm all its own.

As for the rest of your post, you didn't make any relevant points so there's nothing for me to respond to.

Sleep and Visions of Avarice are two attack spells right off the bat because one causes unconsciousness and the other causes immobilization.

Those are attacks.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Actually, you can, and pretty easily. One of the pcs in my 4e game (currently about 24th level) is an enchanter mage, and almost all of his spells are "Hey, enemy, go over there and make an attack" type things; the wizard doesn't do much damage, he gets his enemies to fight amongst themselves.

you attack there will def... they make an attack... then damage is done...

 

[the Jester]

Wait wait wait- the assertion being challenged is that you can't make a wizard who doesn't do damage. I don't think the assertion was "Wizards can always do something effective in combat"- if it was, I wouldn't disagree.

"Oh but Sleep is an attack spell" and "Oh but you're still lurking behind the damage that someone else is doing" seems to me like the goalposts are moving.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Except that's not how any one of the 13 Doctor's have died. And if you're implying that since he's a non-combatant he keeps dying, you REALLY need to start watching it!

wait... the master of Venusian Akdo, the guy who genecided more then one race (Including his own) and the guy who uses cyber guns to shoot cybermen... the guy who... you know what he blew up a fleet with regenerative energy... no he not non combat... maybe never was (I came into the series with 3 and didn't like 4... then came back with 9 (Maybe he is 10 now))

 

[XunValdorl_of_Kilsek]

Wait wait wait- the assertion being challenged is that you can't make a wizard who doesn't do damage. I don't think the assertion was "Wizards can always do something effective in combat"- if it was, I wouldn't disagree.

"Oh but Sleep is an attack spell" and "Oh but you're still lurking behind the damage that someone else is doing" seems to me like the goalposts are moving.

Those are types of damage so the goalposts are not moving.

 

[Derren]

wait... the master of Venusian Akdo, the guy who genecided more then one race (Including his own) and the guy who uses cyber guns to shoot cybermen... the guy who... you know what he blew up a fleet with regenerative energy... no he not non combat... maybe never was (I came into the series with 3 and didn't like 4... then came back with 9 (Maybe he is 10 now))

According to this logic the president of the US is the greatest, most powerful warrior on earth because he can push a red button.

 

[ImperatorK]

Of course you can. While being successful helps, being heroic is first and foremost about the choices you make, to go into situations with the high possibility of your demise in order to help others. It has nothing to do with how many 18s you rolled or how high your attack bonus is.

And then you fail and instead of being a hero you become a laughingstock. Or worse, you die and can't play no more.
Also, that might work in a movie or a novel, but not in a game.

 

[Mistwell]

Those are types of damage so the goalposts are not moving.

Sleep and paralysis are types of damage?

I am still waiting on your reply to my question about why you keep telling people who disagree with you that they must not have much experience playing D&D/RPGs.

 

[Marshall]

According to this logic the president of the US is the greatest, most powerful warrior on earth because he can push a red button.

No, the point is that Doctor Who combat occurs off camera. So you have no idea how competent the Doctor is/isnt at actually fighting AND, oh yeah, "Here are several examples of the Doctor claiming high levels of competence in combat" and no, I havent seen more than a half dozen episodes, mostly in the 80's, where all he did was set bombs, rewire daleks, get captured, escape(because of the rewired dalek) and.... I do seem to remember that the guy was more than capable of hand-to-hand combat and being able to disarm most single combatants.

 

[ImperatorK]