13th Age What should 4e steal from 13th Age?

[Garthanos]

In short, to get the bonus you have to convince the DM why the background applies... and that can lead to some interesting roleplaying. And sometimes you might only get half the bonus if there's a connection to the background but it's a little bit tenuous.

I suppose you could even use this system on top of the existing 4E skill system and ditch 4E's backgrounds. Instead of a +2 to a single skill as 4E's backgrounds often allow, maybe have 5 points you can allocate in one or more backgrounds of your own design, cap the bonus at, say, +3, and then simply add the bonus on top of any relevant skill check. The beauty of this is that you can still use the Character Builder: a simply post-it note would suffice to record the additional bonuses.

That is basically what I was thinking of and for me that is to scale as I have been allowing people to choose 3 of the generic backgrounds and combine them (being effectively the same as the more potent backgrounds - ie the Scales of War and Forgotten Realms ones)

 

[Dragonblade]

I used the Escalation Die in 4e straight up and it worked great. Though I do use a number of other house rules in 4e to make monsters tougher that don't come from 13th Age.

 

[The Human Target]

Escalation Die seems like such a neat idea.

 

[Quickleaf]

Escalation Die seems like such a neat idea.

How does the Escalation Die work? It's basically a d6 that advances and provides a corresponding attack bonus as combat rounds advance? Or is there more to it?

 

[RevTurkey]

Steal the Icons...and Setting.

Steal the Magic Items limits.

Personally...I would just get a cheap copy of the 4e Players Handbook...then rip the binding off and glue it on the 13th Age book...and see if your players are happier.



(Btw I enjoyed 4th Ed...I just like 13th Age more)

 

[Pour]

• 13th Age Backgrounds instead of skills/themes. It's just so elegant, versatile, and thematic. My players and I love it.
• One Unique Thing instead of 4e background. Replace a small skill bonus or extra language with something character-empowering, meaningful in the narrative, and setting-defining.
• Combat Distances. Engaged/Disengaged combined with near/far adapted as skirmish/gridless combat option; conversely, convert square counting to engaged/near/far distances and basically speed up regular combat up considerably and still maintain an appreciable tactical element; And keeping mark, prone, and flanking would create something special I think
• Weapons Damage and Attack Bonuses +1w/1 level and +1/level attack. Simplified, streamlined, and leave specific weapons and armor mostly cosmetic overlay.
• Escalation Die to speed up combat.
• Montages to prop up the 4e exploration/travel pillar; Combine 13th Age montage with 4e skill challenge, tie to a recovery economy and the 'fail forward' mentality
• Easy, Moderate, and Hard saves and recharges (6+, 11+, 16+)
• Recoveries, Rally, and Staggered instead of Healing Surges, Second Wind, and Bloodied, for no other reason than I like those names better and a few people might stop whining.
• A blend of 13th Age and 4e Conditions (I like 13th Age dazed and weakened)
• Death Attacks w/ Last Gasp Saves on Select Elites/Solos (to allow a little more death attack into 4e, but not quite save or suck given the requirement of hit, then save... but that'll probably be controversial)
• "Nastier Specials" Options for Monsters Listed Under Blocks
• Some sort of Relationship Die rolled at the start of sessions in lieu of combat-oriented Action Points. Instead of extra standard actions, use RD as a kind of fate token to affect story or combat.

 

[The Human Target]

How does the Escalation Die work? It's basically a d6 that advances and provides a corresponding attack bonus as combat rounds advance? Or is there more to it?

That's the basic idea, and then from what I know there are some PC and monster actions that tie into where the escalation die is at.

 

[Dungeoneer]

Steal the Icons...and Setting.

Steal the Magic Items limits.

Personally...I would just get a cheap copy of the 4e Players Handbook...then rip the binding off and glue it on the 13th Age book...and see if your players are happier.



(Btw I enjoyed 4th Ed...I just like 13th Age more)

LOL. I think they'd notice when they suddenly couldn't flank or charge. But it IS tempting!

• Death Attacks w/ Last Gasp Saves on Select Elites/Solos (to allow a little more death attack into 4e, but not quite save or suck given the requirement of hit, then save... but that'll probably be controversial)

I haven't tried this yet, but this reminds me of one other thing I want to steal from 13th Age... the death save systems. I think the harder saves combined with a free recovery on a natural 20 is way more dramatic. And it's mechanically very similar to 4e anyway so there should be no problem dropping it in.

 

[cavalier973]

Characters can only truly be killed by a named villian/antagonist--or, perhaps, when the death is meaningful in some way. This is actually an optional rule in 13th Age, but I like it.

I actually just finished a post on my blog about changing up the ability scores in 4e. I like the OD&D version of ability scores; how they're generated, the very low bonuses (really, no bonus to hit/damage in OD&D, I've discovered, but in Basic, I think, it was *Ability Score - 10 and then divide by 4, round toward zero*), the generally static ability scores. I started a thread a couple of years ago asking how much changing back to that earlier paradigm would mess up the 4e math. My idea was to de-emphasize the importance of ability scores, making it less necessary to invest in having the highest primary stat in order to still be effective. The scientific consensus of the thread was that changing to an earlier style of ability score generation/use would mess 4e up pretty badly.

However, I have a hunch that using escalation die would alleviate some of the problems. But then one must figure out how to scale up the defenses, so that monsters aren't wiping the floor with the characters.

 

[Dungeoneer]

Characters can only truly be killed by a named villian/antagonist--or, perhaps, when the death is meaningful in some way. This is actually an optional rule in 13th Age, but I like it.

I actually just finished a post on my blog about changing up the ability scores in 4e. I like the OD&D version of ability scores; how they're generated, the very low bonuses (really, no bonus to hit/damage in OD&D, I've discovered, but in Basic, I think, it was *Ability Score - 10 and then divide by 4, round toward zero*), the generally static ability scores. I started a thread a couple of years ago asking how much changing back to that earlier paradigm would mess up the 4e math. My idea was to de-emphasize the importance of ability scores, making it less necessary to invest in having the highest primary stat in order to still be effective. The scientific consensus of the thread was that changing to an earlier style of ability score generation/use would mess 4e up pretty badly.

However, I have a hunch that using escalation die would alleviate some of the problems. But then one must figure out how to scale up the defenses, so that monsters aren't wiping the floor with the characters.

If you want to discourage min-maxing, another idea you might steal from 13th Age is using the middle ability score to calculate defenses.