D&D 5E (2014) how many 5e supporters are upset about the possible $50 price tag

[ren1999]

Let's have a new survey. Would you pay?
$20
$30
$40
$50
What do you expect in the Player's Handbook at your chosen price?

I would pay $20 for the 4 core classes and skill set details associated with each class. I expect every detail to play the class.

 

[Argyle King]

Maybe I'm crazy, but $50 seems pretty reasonable based upon the amount of content which is (supposedly) in the PHB.


At this point in time, I do not plan to buy 5E, but the price is not the reason why. I think the price is reasonable.

 

[delericho]

Is there any good reason why they should sell it for $40?

Well... there's an invisible curve that relates price points (and profit per unit) to the number of purchases - in broad terms, as the price goes up so does the margin but the number of customers goes down (but it's not a 1-to-1 correlation, and sometimes a price increase may even lead to more sales, bizarre as that is). I say it's an "invisible curve" because it only has two known points - if the unit is priced at $0 you get no profit, and if it's priced at $VeryHigh you get no sales and so no profit. Everything between those two points is (largely) a matter of guesswork. (There's a comparison I could give, but it's political, so I won't. )

So, WotC should aim to find the 'sweet spot' where they maximise their profits, allowing for those trade-offs - the point where "margin per unit" x "number of sales" is maximised. That may mean a PHB at $40, or $50, or some other value.

But, speaking on a more personal level...

I was very surprised by the $50 price (again, assuming it's accurate). I had assumed 5e would look much like 2nd Ed ("black cover" version"), 3e, 3.5e, or 4e - that is, three books of about 300 pages each. And, since the price of the books has been reasonably stable across those editions, I expected it to stay much the same again, at approx $40 for each of the three books. Given those assumptions, $50 is indeed a big above-inflation increase.

Now, there are three things to note about that:

- We don't know what else has changed. (I mean, technically we don't even know the $50 value is accurate...) So, it may well be that instead of three 300 page books, 5e takes the form of one 500 page book. Or it might be that it's three 500 page books, and that they're so complete that there's just no call for supplements for the game, ever (unlikely, I know!).

- Traditionally, the core rules for D&D have represented absurdly good value. My 3.5e core rulebooks are probably my single best purchases ever, closely followed by my 2nd Ed ones - in each case I used them extensively for years, running multiple campaigns. They would have been very good value at twice the price. So it may well be that WotC, recognising the disproportionate value of the core rulebooks, and also recognising just how badly supplements fare by comparison, feel that those core rulebooks should be more profitable. Honestly, I can't fault their thinking in that regard, if it is the case.

- There is, of course, a saying about making assumptions. WotC never said 5e would follow the previously-established models and price points. Which is why I'm surprised by this 'news', not angry.

 

[delericho]

Let's have a new survey. Would you pay?
$20
$30
$40
$50
What do you expect in the Player's Handbook at your chosen price?

At a $40 price point, I would like something that looks like the PHB of 2nd Ed, 3.5e, or even 4e (though I'd prefer less whitespace and a smaller font in the last case).

At a $50 price point, I would like something noticably bigger. Ideally, at a $50 price point, I would like a single Core Rulebook containing the complete game (albeit a limited set of races, classes, magic items, and monsters, and you can defer everything above level 12 or so). Since I think that's unlikely, I'd like a set I can run multiple full campaigns from without feeling either that I'm retreading old ground (too much) or that I'm working with insufficient support at any time (especially at high levels).

But...

If what WotC are offering is a "big three" that are pretty much like the 3.5e equivalents for $50 each, that's still not a deal-breaker for me. All it does is raise the bar of what I expect from the game - if I feel confident I'll get as much use from the 5e books as I have from my 3.5e ones (heck, even half as much), then I'll pay the $50 per book, and feel happy doing so.

 

[Wulfgar76]

Assuming this question wasn't rhetorical or unserious... because a $40 price tag would make it more attractive to buyers who aren't RPG hobbyists already. (Though I suspect the upper limit for most casual/new gamers would really be around $30.)

This is precisely why they have a $20 Starter Set.

Well... there's an invisible curve that relates price points (and profit per unit) to the number of purchases - in broad terms, as the price goes up so does the margin but the number of customers goes down (but it's not a 1-to-1 correlation, and sometimes a price increase may even lead to more sales, bizarre as that is). I say it's an "invisible curve" because it only has two known points - if the unit is priced at $0 you get no profit, and if it's priced at $VeryHigh you get no sales and so no profit. Everything between those two points is (largely) a matter of guesswork. (There's a comparison I could give, but it's political, so I won't. )

So, WotC should aim to find the 'sweet spot' where they maximise their profits, allowing for those trade-offs - the point where "margin per unit" x "number of sales" is maximised. That may mean a PHB at $40, or $50, or some other value.

Hasbro probably has among the globe's best retail toy and game economists working for them. The $50 price tag is probably very close to this 'sweet spot'. The polls on this site all suggest people interested in 5e are going to buy it anyway.

 

[delericho]

Hasbro probably has among the globe's best retail toy and game economists working for them. The $50 price tag is probably very close to this 'sweet spot'. The polls on this site all suggest people interested in 5e are going to buy it anyway.

Indeed. Well, inasmuch as it's possible to find a sweet spot on an "invisible curve" anyway.

But I don't doubt they've picked their offering (and price point) very carefully.

 

[JEB]

This is precisely why they have a $20 Starter Set.

I'm sure that's the idea. But whether or not the $20 Starter Set will succeed in attracting fans will depend on whether or not you need the PHB to play - i.e., whether or not the Starter Set is basically a demo. If the PHB is required - as seems very likely, based on Wizards' past behavior - we're back to a price tag that discourages buyers, and thus discourages the growth of the D&D fan base.

The polls on this site all suggest people interested in 5e are going to buy it anyway.

The polls suggest some, perhaps even most, will buy it anyway. But there have also been plenty of posts expressing sticker shock, and this is a community of D&D fans - those most receptive to buying the game. If even some D&D fans think $50 is too much, what do you think casual fans, or potential new fans, will think?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

The polls suggest some, perhaps even most, will buy it anyway. But there have also been plenty of posts expressing sticker shock, and this is a community of D&D fans - those most receptive to buying the game. If even some D&D fans think $50 is too much, what do you think casual fans, or potential new fans, will think?

supporters who were willing to buy:
I was a 5e supporter and still am 68 people

I was a 5e supporter but the price tag has me uneasy about it. 21 people

89 people 21 had 'sticker shock' about 1/4th (23%)

People who were unsure
I was unsure about 5e but the price has me less likely to buy 26 people

I was unsure about 5e but the $50 price tag doesn't effect me 26 people
52 people and half of them are facing 'sticker shock'

so I see this as being a 'noticable' amount when 23% of people who were ready to buy are worried (like me) but even more worring half of the people on the fence say this is a negative mark...

 

[pemerton]

whether or not the $20 Starter Set will succeed in attracting fans will depend on whether or not you need the PHB to play - i.e., whether or not the Starter Set is basically a demo. If the PHB is required - as seems very likely, based on Wizards' past behavior - we're back to a price tag that discourages buyers, and thus discourages the growth of the D&D fan base.

As best I understand, the 4e red box sold well but purchasers did not make the move to the other Essentials books.

Given how comparatively cheap the Essentials books were, there is no reason to think that buyers of the D&Dnext starter set will migrate to the PHB whether it is $40 or $50. What puts people of migrating, as best I understand it, is not price but size/complexity.

I assume that WotC will be publishing supplements for the starter set that are more user friendly then the PHB. The most obvious such supplements would be ready-to-play adventures.

 

[JEB]

As best I understand, the 4e red box sold well but purchasers did not make the move to the other Essentials books.

Given how comparatively cheap the Essentials books were, there is no reason to think that buyers of the D&Dnext starter set will migrate to the PHB whether it is $40 or $50. What puts people of migrating, as best I understand it, is not price but size/complexity.

1) The 4E red box, by all accounts, didn't provide a full game. So there wasn't enough substance to really hook people. As such, it would have likely failed to attract new players regardless of what they priced the Essentials books at.

2) Say you offer a new gamer a choice between two equally appealing games. One looks more complicated, but it's about $25. The other is really simple, but it's also $50. Which do you think they're more likely to take a chance on?

(And if the $50 price tag holds, the PHB is going to look both complicated AND expensive. So it's an even harder sell than either hypothetical above...)

I assume that WotC will be publishing supplements for the starter set that are more user friendly then the PHB. The most obvious such supplements would be ready-to-play adventures.

That would certainly be a good idea. So long as it doesn't lead to two mostly incompatible versions of D&D, like in the 1980s...