D&D 5E D&D Next Q&A: 04/25/2014

[GMforPowergamers]

If diffrent classes at the same level are diffrent cr how can you balance any class combo

 

[Minigiant]

If diffrent classes at the same level are diffrent cr how can you balance any class combo

This is why thy gave every class either a spendable resource (spells, surges, ki) door a big reliable class feature (sneak attack, rage).

This way every class works as attrition or in nova.

 

[howandwhy99]

1:1 is the balance of a monster with any other monster, even a PC Monster. But changing the bar for balancing is done easily enough.

What's actually disconcerting is:
-They still assume challenges (combat or otherwise) are not chosen by the players
-NPCs are out of the game ("screen time") when not engaged with the PCs
-NPCs fight for their lives every fight and so spend all resources every fight (and PCs wouldn't)
-PCs are expected to battle as if not in life or death struggles, but necessary steps of an "adventure"

 

[Doc_Klueless]

I very much like how, at about 41:20, the level of complexity for the base D&D5e game is described as (paraphrased): "Rules cyclopedia with the d20 mechanic and slightly more complex monsters added on. A little bit more because classes have skills now and a few more class features." For me, that's not bad. Not bad at all. That might actually hit my gaming sweet spot.

 

[Li Shenron]

Rodney just wrote an example half an hour ago on Twitter... here's a summary about how CR, XP and level work in 5e for encounter building, if I understood the example correctly.

1- each PC of level X (not necessarily all are same level) in the party has an "XP budget", depending if you want the encounter easy, moderate or hard: pick the difficulty level, and sum the XP budget of each PC to get total encounter XP

2- monsters CR can be compared to the PCs' level X (or individual X1, X2 etc.): if CR is lower than X, then this monster is safe to use

3- you add as many monsters of the chosen type(s) to the encounter, until you are close enough to the total XP

 

[fjw70]

I Tweeted Rodney Thompson about CR and XP to get an example and here was his response.


@wotc_rodney: [MENTION=3482]FJ[/MENTION]w1970 Sure. Let's say I am building an adventure for a 5th-level party of six player characters. I want to put three gricks in a room.


@wotc_rodney: [MENTION=3482]FJ[/MENTION]w1970 I know the gricks are OK to include because they are CR 2, so below my party's level. Here, CR is just an easy-to-reference flag.


@wotc_rodney: [MENTION=3482]FJ[/MENTION]w1970 Each grick is worth 450 XP, so there's 1,350 XP worth of monsters in the encounter.


@wotc_rodney: [MENTION=3482]FJ[/MENTION]w1970 Referencing my encounter-building tables, I see that each PC contributes 200 XP to the encounter budget of a moderate fight.


@wotc_rodney: [MENTION=3482]FJ[/MENTION]w1970 Since I have 6 PCs, I know I'd normally include about 1,200 XP worth of monsters to a moderate fight, so this encounter is...


@wotc_rodney: [MENTION=3482]FJ[/MENTION]w1970 ...a little more than moderate difficulty. That's all there is to it.


@wotc_rodney: [MENTION=3482]FJ[/MENTION]w1970 Keep in mind those exact numbers may not be right, because I'm out of the office and don't have my documents to refer to.


@wotc_rodney: [MENTION=3482]FJ[/MENTION]w1970 But the concept is right.


@wotc_rodney: [MENTION=3482]FJ[/MENTION]w1970 CR is just an easy to reference indicator for DMs to know a monster's relative power.


@wotc_rodney: [MENTION=3482]FJ[/MENTION]w1970 It's just easier to remember that "CR 2" starts being an appropriate challenge for 2nd level characters, as opposed to 450 XP.

 

[Savage Wombat]

The assumption here has to be that there is not a clear mathematical relationship between CR and the XP of a creature of that CR. So you can't just multiply any creature's CR by the ratio and get the XP for it. Otherwise this would be semantics.

 

[Ruzak]

Calling CR "just an easy reference indicator" makes it sounds like there is just a 1:1 correspondence, and not any indication of solo/elite/standard. Again I hope I am wrong.

 

[Minigiant]

CR seems more like a gauge for damage and health. For example a CR 2 probably will not kill a level 2 PC in one attack routine.

So an orc with a 2d6+3 great ax attack is probably CR3 because it can drop 10 damage easily. The force chieftain with 2 attacks might be CR5.

 

[Kinak]

It sounds like CR is being used as "you must be this tall to ride this ride" sign, which I can see some merit to.

There are definitely times it'd be handy to have a note like "Hey, don't use this monster until your party has access to cure blindness or lesser restoration or stone to flesh." Similarly for monsters back in the day that were invulnerable to non-magical weapons.

That said, if flat math works the way it's advertised, we don't really need it for normal monsters. In 4e or Pathfinder, hitting a monster a few levels above you can be difficult. But, if the math was actually flat, 1,000 XP of monster should be 1,000 XP of monster regardless.

Even with things leaning away from flat match, as they were in the last packet... I'd still rather have specific notes on certain monsters (an asterisk on the XP value, if you will), than a CR value on every monster that means something different each time.

It'll probably be harmless enough in practice, though. As long as the XP values are good, the CR they're describing will come out in the wash.

I very much like how, at about 41:20, the level of complexity for the base D&D5e game is described as (paraphrased): "Rules cyclopedia with the d20 mechanic and slightly more complex monsters added on. A little bit more because classes have skills now and a few more class features." For me, that's not bad. Not bad at all. That might actually hit my gaming sweet spot.

Yeah, that actually sounds pretty good. We'll see if they can hit that

Cheers!
Kinak