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Hussar

Legend
If he has the right to say whatever he wants, why don't I have the right to vote with my wallet and refuse to give him money?

Why should I not be allowed to react in whatever manner (short of illegal actions of course) I see fit when learning what this guy says?

Why should he be given safe haven to say whatever he wants to say, free of any repercussions?
 

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Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
If he has the right to say whatever he wants, why don't I have the right to vote with my wallet and refuse to give him money?

Why should I not be allowed to react in whatever manner (short of illegal actions of course) I see fit when learning what this guy says?

Why should he be given safe haven to say whatever he wants to say, free of any repercussions?
+1

And why can't the group that let him join their little club kick him out when he violated the rules he contractually agreed not to violate?
 



Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
I have unease over the NBA being run as a private club. I have to pause and think about that.

Thx!

TomB
Why? That is EXACTLY what it is.

You can't merely start singing players to contracts, form a team, and start scheduling games against the Spurs & Bulls.

1) you have to apply to buy the rights to operate a team from the NBA

2) they investigate you

3) if you are approved by the others, you are then given a contract to sign

It is this structure that is going to cost Sterling's wife. She is claiming that ownership of the Clippers is community property in the state of California, and as such, the NBA can't take the team away from her, since she didn't violate the the terms of ownership.

Normally, in a community property state, the presumption is that any property acquired during a marriage is community property. The problem is, she was never vetted by the NBA and never signed their contract- she was never admitted to the club.

And clubs are different. Clubs control their own membership; it ISN'T property that belongs to the member. So, unless the club says otherwise, you can't become a club member by the operation of probate law or invoking Commuinty property statutes. You can't merely buy your way into the club, either. While you CAN buy an NBA franchise from a current owner, that contract for sale is only valid if the transfer is approved by the NBA.
 
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I have unease over the NBA being run as a private club. I have to pause and think about that.

Thx!

TomB

Sports are like that, and they often have rules you wouldn't encounter in a normal job or occupation. To compete in Boxing or the UFC for example you have to have be examined by a doctor prior to the fight and you have to have a blood test to check for HIV (the results of which you must show to the organization responsible for the event). Frankly I think the latter is pretty good rule to help protect fighters because these sports expose you to blood by their very nature. But it isn't a rule I would want to see implemented at an office job. Stuff like that is just part of being a participant in a sport. It can extend to other things. In Taekwondo for example you conduct outside the gym and competitions can be factored into any decision about you made by the WTF. You always have the option of not being a part of the WTF.
 

tomBitonti

Adventurer
Why? That is EXACTLY what it is.

You can't merely start singing players to contracts, form a team, and start scheduling games against the Spurs & Bulls.

1) you have to apply to buy the rights to operate a team from the NBA

2) they investigate you

3) if you are approved by the others, you are then given a contract to sign

Additional text omitted.

What gives me pause is the degree to which the organizations are in the public view, and the degree to which there are specific legal rules in place, and the degree to which public resources are devoted to the sport (arena, the university driven player pipeline).

The question that I have is why isn't the league a kind of public accommodation (given the public investment, see above), in support of the league. I can see business related requirements (maintain a roster, have certain assurances of meeting a level of competitiveness, have assurances of meeting financial commitments, work within a marketing and reporting structure as set by the league, and so forth), and have a process to measure the fitness of applicants that selected membership from applicants.

The whole business seems far to publicly entrenched to be run as a private club.

Thx!

TomB
 

Additional text omitted.

What gives me pause is the degree to which the organizations are in the public view, and the degree to which there are specific legal rules in place, and the degree to which public resources are devoted to the sport (arena, the university driven player pipeline).

The question that I have is why isn't the league a kind of public accommodation (given the public investment, see above), in support of the league. I can see business related requirements (maintain a roster, have certain assurances of meeting a level of competitiveness, have assurances of meeting financial commitments, work within a marketing and reporting structure as set by the league, and so forth), and have a process to measure the fitness of applicants that selected membership from applicants.

The whole business seems far to publicly entrenched to be run as a private club.

Thx!

TomB

Wouldn't that make stuff like this even more common. If it becomes public, then that involves tax money and every little controversy is instantly political (it would be like the baseball steroid committes times ten). Now the NBA can basically do what it wants, and heeds market pressures. But if public funding were on the line then they couldnt do anything that pissed off anyone.
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
What gives me pause is the degree to which the organizations are in the public view, and the degree to which there are specific legal rules in place, and the degree to which public resources are devoted to the sport (arena, the university driven player pipeline).

The question that I have is why isn't the league a kind of public accommodation (given the public investment, see above), in support of the league. I can see business related requirements (maintain a roster, have certain assurances of meeting a level of competitiveness, have assurances of meeting financial commitments, work within a marketing and reporting structure as set by the league, and so forth), and have a process to measure the fitness of applicants that selected membership from applicants.

The whole business seems far to publicly entrenched to be run as a private club.

Thx!

TomB

FWIW, you forgot their Anti-Trust exemption.

But you're putting the horse before the cart. The simple reason it isn't a public accommodation is because it is a private club, and there is no legal grounds for forcing them to be otherwise. In fact, it would probably be unconstitutional to do so, since one of our fundamental rights is freedom of association.

All kinds of private clubs operate all kinds of business around the USA...but that doesn't mean they're beyond the law. They still have to conform to the laws of the USA, as well as the state and cities in which they operate.

And merely doing a lot of business doesn't make you NOT a club.

Look at the Krewes of New Orleans I mentioned before: they put on the Mardi Gras parades, and every last one is a private club. A bunch of them were successfully sued for having racist admissions policies, so they had to choose between continuing their racist admissions policies or staging their parades. They chose racism. So a whole bunch of parades are no longer held...but new ones- operated by non-discriminatory Krewes like Harry Connick, Jr.'s Orpheus- have risen up and filled the gap.

Sports leagues & teams DO get a lot of things their way. But that's because they make a lot of money, and money talks. The Dallas Cowboys used to play at Texas Stadium in Irving, Texas (near where I used to live) and had a training facility in Valley Ranch (near where I live now). Their business discussions with city governments around here lead to all kinds of interesting political & PR battles.

While my father was part of a group erecting a medical building, they had to pay the city to get a turn lane for improved access. Meanwhile, the Cowboys had tax breaks thrown at them. And when the battle over the stadium began, the Mayor refused the deal they offered. She felt that the city didn't need to give tax breaks And pass bonds to find a stadium that Mr. Jones could have built with 3 years worth of the revenue from just the luxury suites at Texas Stadium.

And Arlington got the Cowboys by voting in the bonds and tax breaks to build the new stadium. The training facility has also moved on.
 

tomBitonti

Adventurer
I couldn't remember the correct phrasing for the Anti-Trust exception, but that furthers my point. And I understand that the current status arose from a prior status which looked very different. And I understand the degree which money is involved and influences matters. I'm not expecting any changes in the next decade (which is as far as I'm willing to make predictions).

It's just that today, with the huge entrenchment, that the league is a private club is jarring. The situation seems off balance.

Not sure if this is a good analogy, but if I sought out ownership of a local bank, or golf course, my views seem unlikely to directly interfere with my ownership. In practice, I might have a problem finding employees, or finding customers, but that is an indirect issue. I do suppose the PGA or WPGA could deny my golf course whatever membership or association is meaningful for their organization. But, I would not expect that FDIC or Federal Reserve Board could prevent me from owning a bank.

Thx!

TomB
 

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