D&D 5E Pages from the PHB

[lkj]

So, as a summary of recent discussion in this thread, here is what I see:

1) The WotC designers have described the Basic game as a complete game in and of itself. They believe it can be played with great enjoyment without any reference to the Players Handbook, Monster Manual and Dungeon Masters Guide. (This has been pretty clearly stated, though I'll leave it to others to dig up the quotes).

2) Paraxis does not feel that what WotC designers have described constitutes a complete game.

3) Others in this thread feel it does constitute a complete game.

4) These positions are unlikely to change.

Beyond that, I suppose we can argue about the semantics of the word 'core', though I question the value. Anyway, you guys can talk about what you want of course. Just an observation.

On my part-- The first reactions two of my players gave to the surge table were:

"That's the old DnD flavor I miss!"

"Fantastic! Really fun and totally old D&D, I agree."

I like it as well, though I completely understand how it could be a turn off to some folks. I am certainly going to consider the PH a set of options to be plugged in and played. On the other hand, I'm unlikely to rule many of them out except for a specific story reasons. (For example, I'm interested in developing an Ancient India campaign, and I'd likely make some changes for it).

AD

 

[Umbran]

I don't understand your overwhelming desire to make a meal out of a free sample.

I think you misunderstand. He doesn't have an overwhelming desire to make a meal out of a free sample. He simply finds the free offering to be a fully satisfying meal. You may feel differently. That's okay.

None of us should be in the business of telling others what should be satisfying to them. So, how about this - you stop telling him it is an incomplete game. Complete or incomplete is subjective, depending upon expectations and desires. Instead, tell him that game just doesn't have enough *for you*. That is something he can't argue with.

Meanwhile, he'll not tell you that you should be satisfied with the Basic offering. Because he can't make that assertion.

And then everyone will be speaking the truth, and that should be sufficient.

 

[jadrax]

What about backgrounds?

MM: Yep, they'll be there. First taste of character customization. Quick guidelines for creating backgrounds.

I don't think that suggests there is only 4 backgrounds, and it seems there are guidelines to make your own anyway.

 

[GSHamster]

Ugh...

The table is otherwise good. But this means whoever wrote this table thinks PC Alignment determines PC actions, rather than vice-versa, which is just bloody terrible on so many levels.

The thing is that the other way is rather awkward wording. It would be something like:

"Your character's personality changes such that she now makes the choices that a character of opposite alignment would make. I.e. if your character was Lawful Good, she now acts like a Chaotic Evil character."

Simply saying that your alignment switches is a shortcut that we all understand.

 

[Dausuul]

The thing is that the other way is rather awkward wording. It would be something like:

"Your character's personality changes such that she now makes the choices that a character of opposite alignment would make. I.e. if your character was Lawful Good, she now acts like a Chaotic Evil character."

Simply saying that your alignment switches is a shortcut that we all understand.

Actually, depending on the specifics of alignment rules, it could mean something quite different. It could be that your personality and behavior stay the same, but your alignment as a mechanical element gets changed. So if you were previously Lawful Good, you still behave in an honorable and upright way, but you now detect as evil, are burned by holy objects, et cetera.

Basically, the wild magic surge shorts out your karma.

 

[MoonSong]

I don't particularly like to burst anybody's bubble, but that table belongs to no wild mage, there is no wild mage there, that is a wild SORCERER, important detail, or insignificant in the eye of the beholder, but again it makes it way more flexible that with a classical wild mage. With a wild mage it is very obvious the character is a loon, because nobody becomes an embodiment of chaos on purpose unless he or she is pretty chaotic already. With a wild sorcerer on the other hand thing are more flexible, unlike a wizard, a sorcerer doesn't necessarily choses to be like that, which opens up the possibility of having a deadly serious and brooding character who is only a reluctant bringer of chaos and wouldn't be out of place in more serious games.

Which brings me to the following point, we all need to remain open-minded to new character concepts, and double for DMs. Of course in home games DMs can get away with removing, banning or changing stuff, such is the wonder of having a roleplaying group, but not everybody is as lucky and such negativity can be discouraging. Until yesterday I was pretty sure I was buying into fifth edition, only being alert for any possible shortcomings in the edition structure alone that would mean I rather delay adopting it. In other words just awaiting judgement to plan about my own buying schedule. But after reading all of the negativity in here, I'm discouraged, and it isn't because I'm a 'whinner', but my interest in the new edition is for all of those things that are "new school", those that don't exist in the basic game and that really spark my imagination, but if every 5e DM online and in organised play is going to approach the game with such a reduced conception and is going to be fully adamant about not leaving in anything beyond the sacred four, then I see no point on buying a phb if all I'll be able to use will be the basic rules, and if I'm going to be limited to just the most basic classes, then I'm better off staying with 2e, at least that way while I won't get to plag sorcers warlocks or barbarians, I won't have to negotiate with a wall everytime I want to play a paladin, gnome or bard either. Which also means now I'm going to postpone any plans to get the books until late into the edition, and at that point I will be deciding if it is worth the effort to get into the edition at all, and it won't be in the edition's intrinsic merits,but rather on how friendly or hostile the community is by then. And this saddens me, because I was pretty much in the bandwagon, and to me it was only a matter of whether to buy the phb in September and get the mm next year or wait a year and get the trinity while only getting by with the box and the basic game on the time being. And this isn't an overreaction, when you don't have a group you lack negotiation power, you are at the whim of whoever decides to host a game and give you a spot, if you don't like the status quo there are dozens of other players who will gladly take that place, such is life.
It doesn't matter if the new edition has the best bard, sorcerer and warlock and if it provides an unmatched ability to custimize characters never seen before, if I can never get to play anything beyond the basix game because all of the DMs available are so close minded and "purist" then there is little point on bothering buying anything or moving on to the edition. 2e may lack character options I've come to love, PF may not be my cup of tea and 4e is clunky to play over the internet, but at least in the communities I frequent I know waht to expect and I don't have to buy anything new,

Edit I started writing this two hours and many pages ago, as suchit doesn't reflect the current status of the thread

 

[Talath]

I think you misunderstand. He doesn't have an overwhelming desire to make a meal out of a free sample. He simply finds the free offering to be a fully satisfying meal. You may feel differently. That's okay.

None of us should be in the business of telling others what should be satisfying to them. So, how about this - you stop telling him it is an incomplete game. Complete or incomplete is subjective, depending upon expectations and desires. Instead, tell him that game just doesn't have enough *for you*. That is something he can't argue with.

Meanwhile, he'll not tell you that you should be satisfied with the Basic offering. Because he can't make that assertion.

And then everyone will be speaking the truth, and that should be sufficient.

I like this, both because it says what we're really trying to say and because you used a food metaphor.

 

[Mistwell]

Nevermind, Umbran already said it.

 

[MoonSong]

I like it as well, though I completely understand how it could be a turn off to some folks. I am certainly going to consider the PH a set of options to be plugged in and played. On the other hand, I'm unlikely to rule many of them out except for a specific story reasons. (For example, I'm interested in developing an Ancient India campaign, and I'd likely make some changes for it).

AD

The edition needs more people like you.

 

[Remathilis]

[Food Analogy] I actually see it like Pizza.

Basic is a Pepperoni Pizza. Its good, but kinda one-dimensional. Some like it for its simplicity. Some want more toppings. Still, you can eat it and you would be full.

The PHB/DMG/MM is more like a pick-your-toppings. You could add bacon, mushrooms, onions, or even pineapple for some unfathomable reason. Or, you could add them all and make a Supreme.

Now, the problem is Paraxis is complaining that D&D pizza is selling (we'll say) green pepper. He think it ruins the pizza. So he has some options.

1.) Order a Supreme and remove the green peppers.
2.) Order a Pepperoni and then add additional toppings.
3.) Say "screw it" and order Chinese.

However, you don't get to call the pizza place and tell them to take green peppers off the menu.

[/Food Analogy]