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D&D 5E Design Philosophy of 5e

Personally, I think the spirit of the rules is by far more important than the letter of them.

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I consider FATE Core to be the height of rules-heavy that I would want to run/play. Anything more than that, and I'm a bit off put. Personally, playing Dungeon World has been the biggest single eye opener for me in terms of freedom in rules interpretations and the importance of acknowledging the spirit of the rules.

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So, going back to D&D from this mindset, I see the rules in a different light. I like to think the rules don't exist so that I know what I can do. The genre determines what I can or cannot do. The rules just determine the feedback I get when I try to do those things. And, the DM as the interpreter of the rules, determines how to utilize them in response.
A key feature of Dungeon World is that the players have known moves available, which - when used - can generate obligations on the GM to be truthful.

In RPG terms, I find that the antithesis of an approach that says (for instance) that the GM makes up the DC in response to the player's check; or the GM lets the player roll the dice but has already secretly decided what the outcome will be.

5e can, perhaps, be played in a DW style, but I don't think it defaults to it, at least not on the basis of the GMing advice presented in the playtest. The version of D&D that plays most like DW (or Fate, for that matter) is, I think, 4e, although 4e treats fictional positioning in resolution differently from DW.

I find that 4e's total separation of fluff and mechanics in power descriptions makes me pretty much ignore the fluff. It has no use, so why should I read it?

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I think role playing games should avoid trying to be board games which need very specific rules to handle border cases.
In 4e the italic "fluff" can perhaps be ignored, but the keywords of an ability or power are quite fundamental to understanding how it works in the fiction, and to adjudicating its use. For instance, the reason a fireball sets things on fire isn't because the "fluff" tells us, but because (i) it does fire damage, and (ii) the caster can't discriminate in who it targets ("creatures", not "enemies").

The interplay between keywords and the fiction is one of they key ways in which 4e differs from a boardgame (where there is no fiction). It is how 4e handles fictional positioning as a contribution to action resolution. Just as in other editions of D&D, or games like DW or Fate, the GM is in charge of adjudicating the fictional positioning. But like those other games, 4e takes for granted that the GM will do this honestly, and that the players will be able to get the benefits of the "moves" the game gives them (ie PCs' powers).

As an example let's look at how BX AC and AD&D handle fireballs.

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The BX description is very simple and straightforward. The AD&D version complicates things by talking about filling the volume and setting things on fire. Those types of details can and should be left to the DM.
I strongly agree with this, and I think it's not a coincidence that the 4e fireball description is very similar to the B/X one, and much more like it than like the AD&D one.

I think the AD&D approach to fireball is an instance of taking one particular GM's (and table's) play experience and trying to turn it into a universal rule for everyone. I don't think that's good for the game. Let the table work out what the effect on any given pile of metal is, of taking Xd6 damage.

What I see now are two groups that are in favor of strict constructionism. One group is folks who like the rules to represent the physics of the game.

<snip>

The other group is folks who want rules to provide fairly strict balance. I see the combination of discussion of DM power and "rulings", story before balance class design, move back to natural language, and comments from Mearls, all as generally pointing to the idea that 5e is less concerned with the strict constructionist approach.
The key thing, for me, is that the players should have moves that they can perform to play the game. If those moves are defined by reference to ingame phenomena like units of time or distance, or the presence of trees or animals, or whatever, then in order to use their moves the players need to have reliable ways of establishing what the relevant phenomena are.

But if, for instance, everyone things it's too boring, in actual play, to keep track of every 6 seconds that passes in the gameworld, or to keep track of distances down to the last 5', then my strong preference is not to use rules that are defined in such terms. Because if the rules are defined in such terms, but the passage of time or distance is a matter of GM fiat rather than actual counting, then the players can't really make their moves anymore.

This becomes obvious when you have, say, a trap that attacks everyone in 5', but no one is keeping precise track of which PC is within 5' of who and what, and then the trap is triggered and suddenly it has to be decided which PCs are affected and which are not. In practice, one solution I've seen used is to roll a "luck die" - everyone who rolls less than 50% (or whatever) is targeted; the rest are safely outside the blast radius. But in that case why are we taking the detour through rules that talk about a 5' blast radius? Just state that the trap attacks everyone in the party, but all but the triggering PC get a saving throw of 11+ to avoid the attack!

This is one strength of a system like Fate, at least in my opinion. (DW has some of these strengths too.)

the more abstract the game is the more likely arguments will break out.
This is an empirical claim which is open to serious question. As we've already seen in the context of 5e, reliance on a simulationist approach to ingame time and ingame space (detailed positioning rules, measuring effects in units of ingame time, etc) can be a very serious source of contention. And in my own RPGing experience, a significant amount of argument in many systems involves positioning in combat or similar situations (eg where is each PC when a trap is triggered). These arguments break out because the game system uses very simulationist resolution for positioning (eg each character is meant to be located at a defined point on a scale map).

In systems with abstract positioning, those sorts of arguments don't break out in the same way, because there is always an ascertainable answer as to where any given PC is in relation to effects that are generated. (Or in some systems, position becomes a type of keyword that can be used to feed into the resolution of an avoidance roll, or whatever.)

I could be effective running a intrigue heavy 4e game for a small group of players that I know really well. That doesn't mean I will be effective with a different, larger group running a dungeon crawling game using Next. How effective you are as a GM is extremely specific to the context of the game.
This is true. There are things I'm not good at as a GM (eg running Gygax-style dungeon crawls) and so I generally avoid them.
 

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Some things aren't a result of the rules not working as intended in the course of most games, but people taking a very meta-approach to the rules to create effects unintended by the designers. The 15-minute workday and the issues with the Mechanic That Shall Not Be Named reflect this kind of problem.
But sometimes the players are expected to go meta. For instance, no one is expected to play White Plume Mountain without paying pretty close attention to hit point totals, thinking about the way the GM might adjudicate various tricks or traps, etc.

I think it's a problem when the designers expect the players to go meta in at least some parts of the game, then build other parts of the game on the assumption that the players won't go meta. (I think game systems relying upon the passage of ingame time, or facts about ingame distance, are particularly prone to giving rise to this sort of issue.)

It sends confusing signals about how the game is meant to be played.
 

A key feature of Dungeon World is that the players have known moves available, which - when used - can generate obligations on the GM to be truthful.

In RPG terms, I find that the antithesis of an approach that says (for instance) that the GM makes up the DC in response to the player's check; or the GM lets the player roll the dice but has already secretly decided what the outcome will be.

5e can, perhaps, be played in a DW style, but I don't think it defaults to it, at least not on the basis of the GMing advice presented in the playtest. The version of D&D that plays most like DW (or Fate, for that matter) is, I think, 4e, although 4e treats fictional positioning in resolution differently from DW.

My current D&D game of choice is 4e (although I far prefer Dungeon World). There are things to learn from other games, and I think I understand RPGs as a whole better from playing them. After 10 years or so playing just D&D (yeah, I was one of those guys!) I started to look at other systems. I thought I knew everything about playing and running RPGs, but I've learned more in the past 5 years or so after branching out about how to run a good game that everything is starting to look new and shiny again, and its really great.
 

Honestly? They made a catastrophic error.

Earthquakes are catastrophic. Typhoons, tornadoes, and electing Justin Beiber to high office would be catastrophic.

A game design choice? Um, no. Hyperbolic language isn't your friend.

The problem this causes is that you have virtually irreconcilable groups, each group prefers a game that literally invalidates the others.

Two problems with that statement.

First and foremost - one game does not "invalidate" another. Football does not "invalidate" soccer. You may not be able to play both games on the same field at the same time, but that doesn't mean one or the other is invalid.

Second: The word of the day is "compromise". The only thing preventing reconciliation is the player's hyper-picky, stubborn nature.

Their design goal was to put a bunch of stuff into the books and let people argue at the table over which type of game they're going to play, effectively moving the edition wars to the tables.

You do realize that this is not a new situation, right? Pathfinder has been supporting the 3e ruleset for some years now. So, groups already have to decide if they want 3e-ish or 4e-ish play. The world has not suffered catastrophe for having to have that discussion at tables.

This should be relatively fine with groups who only play at home, but is devastating to organized play and public game groups. If some Adventurer's League shop has 50% 3rd edition players and 50% 4th edition players, how do they handle the resulting ruckus about mechanics?

Probably the same way they could have done for the past few years, while they had the Pathfinder Society and Living Forgotten Realms supporting 3e/Pathfinder and 4e, respectively.

The other choice is to have two playgroups, but then you end up with friction.

Friction? Because I can't have someone at a nearby table playing a different game from me? Really?

I usually avoid sarcasm, but I do you know how silly that sounds?

Joe: "Tom, I've been your friend for years, but it really chaps my dingoes that you're playing a different game under the same roof as I am!"
Tom: "Yes, Joe, I know what you mean. Your game invalidates mine! Our game differences cannot be reconciled. So, I will have to slap you around with a limp trout! *thwapslap!*"
Joe: "Fine, then! I have a whiffle bat here! *boonk!*"
Both: *thwapslap!* *boonk!* *thwapslap!* *boonk!*

If you can't compromise about how you want to pretend to be elves, you look more foolish than people pretending to be elves!

WOTC punted on the problem of differences in editions, opting to force tables to argue about what rules are used and ultimately what kind of game is played.

Tables have had to have that discussion since the very first house-rule was written, since the second RPG ever hit the market. We have been doing this for decades already, and the world has not stopped turning.
 

In 4e the italic "fluff" can perhaps be ignored, but the keywords of an ability or power are quite fundamental to understanding how it works in the fiction, and to adjudicating its use. For instance, the reason a fireball sets things on fire isn't because the "fluff" tells us, but because (i) it does fire damage, and (ii) the caster can't discriminate in who it targets ("creatures", not "enemies").

The interplay between keywords and the fiction is one of they key ways in which 4e differs from a boardgame (where there is no fiction). It is how 4e handles fictional positioning as a contribution to action resolution. Just as in other editions of D&D, or games like DW or Fate, the GM is in charge of adjudicating the fictional positioning. But like those other games, 4e takes for granted that the GM will do this honestly, and that the players will be able to get the benefits of the "moves" the game gives them (ie PCs' powers).

I agree with this. The fluff is separate but shouldn't be ignored. A lot of the people I know that dislike 4e always make comments to me that it's too much like a board game or an MMO, and I think that's partly because they have a hard time meshing the separated rules with the separated fluff (because they ignored it). The block of text style descriptions forces them to accept the fluff while scanning for the rules of the power. But this also means that the fluff often isn't left open for fluff-interpretation and instead ends up as a partial rules-interpretation for adjudicating uses of the power. "It says I create a fiery explosion, so that means everything combustible around me explodes as well right?" versus "The spell does fire damage to everything in a 25 foot square, so objects vulnerable to fire are damaged as well, right?" The latter is actually easier to adjudicate (for my group) because having Target: All objects/creatures and Keyword: Fire has an obvious, straightforward meaning, where as "fiery explosion" can be interpreted in numerous ways.

The key thing, for me, is that the players should have moves that they can perform to play the game. If those moves are defined by reference to ingame phenomena like units of time or distance, or the presence of trees or animals, or whatever, then in order to use their moves the players need to have reliable ways of establishing what the relevant phenomena are.

But if, for instance, everyone things it's too boring, in actual play, to keep track of every 6 seconds that passes in the gameworld, or to keep track of distances down to the last 5', then my strong preference is not to use rules that are defined in such terms. Because if the rules are defined in such terms, but the passage of time or distance is a matter of GM fiat rather than actual counting, then the players can't really make their moves anymore.

This is a big issue for my group as well. My players enjoy having powers that tell them exactly what their options are and how to resolve in terms of game rules. Because of this, they can make informed strategic decisions in the face of an encounter. Separating the fluff means how they describe their character performing those actions is completely up to them, and that's empowering. But if their powers relied on factors only known by the DM, or only decidable by the DM, then they would fell much less so.
 


If DM trumps rules, why is it so important that every thing be codified as a rule?
My personal answer is that rules are communication. They are what tell the players how the game world works. If players have no clue how the game world works, they cease to be making meaningful decisions for their characters - they are just taking a punt and hoping for the best. That takes away a very large part of the raison d'etre of playing RPGs for many people.

FWIW I'm far from convinced that a genuinely "rules light" system is ever run. What the published rules don't cover - and this applies whether the "publishing" is done through sales or just sharing houserules around the group - the GM makes up a rule for, possibly in advance or possibly in the moments before the situation is resolved at the gaming table. The only differences are that (a) the players are not privy to what the rules are, and (b) the rules are made by one guy based on their own assumptions, preconceptions, attitudes and beliefs rather than by a team of people thinking through and hashing out what a good rule would be.

That's not to say that the teams of designers always come up with great rules - you know what they say about design by committee - but a lone designer without feedback is unlikely to be systematically better.
 


First and foremost - one game does not "invalidate" another. Football does not "invalidate" soccer. You may not be able to play both games on the same field at the same time, but that doesn't mean one or the other is invalid.

Slight quibble. To the rest of the world football is USA's soccer, so technically they can be played on the same field at the same time. :p
 
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Also, one must remember that designers are not God; their opinion changes.

Experiment: Google "Pathfinder does spring attack work with vital strike?" You'll see the evolution of a rule that was unclear, and the designers couldn't agree how to correct it.
 

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