D&D 5E The many worlds of D&D? The many multiverses of D&D? The many realities of D&D?

[Dungeonosophy]

I think it's a great improvement that the D&D worlds are being brought back as 5e campaign models: Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, Greyhawk, Dark Sun, Mystara, Eberron, plus the Asgardian/Norse, Celtic, Olympian/Greek, and Pharaonic/Egyptian pantheons. Apparently the Dark Sun and Mystara pantheons won't be included in the PHB. Will they be in the DMG?

Gods are included from the worlds of the Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Dragonlance, and Eberron campaign settings, as well as from the Celtic, Greek, Norse, and Egyptian pantheons of antiquity.

Worlds of Adventure: The many worlds of the Dungeons & Dragons game are places of magic and monsters, of brave warriors and spectacular adventures. They begin with a foundation of medieval fantasy and then add the creatures, places, and magic that make these worlds unique.
The worlds of the Dungeons & Dragons game exist within a vast cosmos called the
multiverse, connected in strange and mysterious ways to one another and to other planes of existence, such as the Elemental Plane of Fire and the Infinite Depths of the Abyss. Within
this multiverse are an endless variety of worlds. Many of them have been published as official settings for the D&D game. The legends of the Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, Greyhawk, Dark Sun, Mystara, and Eberron settings are woven together in the fabric of the multiverse. Alongside these worlds are hundreds of thousands more, created by generations of D&D players for their own games. And amid all the richness of the multiverse, you might create a world of your own.


All these worlds share characteristics, but each world is set apart by its own history and cultures, distinctive monsters and races, fantastic geography, ancient dungeons, and scheming villains. Some races have unusual traits in different worlds. The halflings of the Dark Sun setting, for example, are jungle-dwelling cannibals, and the elves are desert nomads. Some worlds feature races unknown in other settings, such as Eberron’s warforged, soldiers created and imbued with life to fight in the Last War. Some worlds are dominated by one great story, like the War of the Lance that plays a central role in the Dragonlance setting. But they’re all D&D worlds, and you can use the rules in this book to create a character and play in any one of them.


Your DM might set the campaign on one of these worlds or on one that he or she created. Because there is so much diversity among the worlds of D&D, you should check with your DM about any house rules that will affect your play of the game. Ultimately, the Dungeon Master is the authority on the campaign and its setting, even if the setting is a published world.

Here are some suggestions for improvement:

• Where is Nerath? I'm no fan of 4e, but don't enough people have a connection with that world for it to remain as one of the Campaign Models? I don't mind Nerath being there as long as it's not edging out the other settings (such as Mystara).

• I suggest at least mentioning Birthright, Blackmoor (which exists as a distinct stand-alone world, even though a similar version of it also exists in the distant past of Mystara), Jakandor, Council of Wyrms, Ghostwalk, Pelinore, the Realm of the D&D Animated Series, Mahasarpa, Masque of the Red Death (Gothic Earth), and the other rarer settings in the DMG. Here's a wider list: https://sites.google.com/site/dndphilmont/d-d-worlds

• Even though it's nice that the text says that the DM is "the authority on the campaign [...] even if the setting is a published world", I suggest in the DMG explicitly say that each DM's version of a published setting is its own parallel alternate world. Even if a DM stuck perfectly to the "canon", their version of Forgotten Realms is simply not the WotC timeline. Surely one of the PCs made at least one footprint different than is depicted in "WotC's D&D World of Forgotten Realms".
  

• And not only the "worlds", but each DM's multiverse is a parallel alternate multiverse. Every DM's campaign is to some degree or another a different multiverse...since even if two DMs stuck to the planar "canon", the planar events and actions of the gods would unfold at least slightly differently in their campaign. It's not like the DMs are the authority on only their worlds, while WotC remains the authority on the Multiverse. DMs are each the authority for their entire D&D Multiverse.

• Though it's a step in the direction of explicitly supporting homegrown settings, it's just not logical to say that "Alongside these worlds are hundreds of thousands more, created by generations of D&D players for their own games. And amid all the richness of the multiverse, you might create a world of your own." Unless WotC sponsors some sort of homebrew world design contest, or runs a regular column featuring homebrew worlds, or makes a dedicated "official homebrew" website or wiki, these "hundreds of thousands more" worlds will simply never be seen in the WotC multiverse. So might as well be clear that the WotC multiverse, as depicted in official books is one timeline and multiverse, and every single DM's campaign is a parallel D&D multiverse. Sure it's a "nice" improvement to "imply" the homebrew worlds are just off the edge of the WotC world map, but if they aren't going to be seen, then let's just say up front that the WotC Multiverse is one of "hundreds of thousands" of multiverses, all of which lie somewhere on the spectrum of homebrew and "close to canon". None of the DMs worlds are actually WotC's Multiverse. That's a good thing. Might as well be up front about it.

• It will be interesting to see how 5e merges all the cosmologies into a single multiverse (a la 2nd edition Planescape, but with a more sophisticated and diverse retcon). As I've mentioned before, I suggest the DMG include a brief explanation of what D&D Brand Manager Bruce Heard, in the Dragon Magazine article "Up, Away, and Beyond" (http://pandius.com/upaway.html), referred to as "game universes". Just as Nerath was a well-meaning conceptual dead-end...in that it was an attempt to make a "generic" D&D world which included all the best adventure sites of previous editions, but which actually blurred away and genericized what had already been developed as distinct world settings...likewise so is the 5e multiverse a well-meaning dead-end...an improvement over the 4e conception, but a dead-end nevertheless.

Why? Because no matter how skillfully and artistically 5e merges all of the cosmologies into a single multiverse (and like I said, Mearls & Co. will probably do a great job, within that conceptual framework), there's no getting around that fact that these settings have been portrayed by other rules systems, with actual in-game, in-world effects. Bruce Heard's "game universe" concept...even if it's just a footnote in the DMG, would provide a clear place for all these different depictions. Namely, each rules system (OD&D, BECMI, 1e, 2e, SAGA, 3e, 4e, 5e) is not only an "out-of-game" lense through which the world is portrayed, with in-game differences depending on which lense is employed, but also each of these rules system "lenses" is actually a distinct "Reality" which is above the "multiverse". There's the BECMI Reality and Multiverse (which is exactly as depicted in BECMI products, with no retcons), the AD&D 2E Reality and Multiverse, the 3e Reality with its various Cosmologies connected via the Plane of Shadow, the 4e Reality with its Astral Sea and Elemental Chaos, and now the 5e Reality.
​

According to this concept, all D&D Worlds potentially exist in all Game Realities, even though only a few of these combinations of World+Reality (Campaign Setting+Rules Edition) have actually been published by TSR and WotC. For example, the BECMI Reality has only been used as the lense for Mystara and Pelinore, but all the D&D worlds could potential be portrayed through this lense (such as a BECMI Dragonlance!), and in their BECMI portrayal they would be slightly different than their portrayal in other Realities. The 2e Reality of Mystara has also been portrayed (plus partial views of the 3e and 4e Reality of Mystara through the occasional magazine or web article).
​

And all Realities extend to the beginning and end of the timeline. It's just that for some worlds, such as Forgotten Realms, our lense shifted. We were seeing the 1e Reality of Forgotten Realms, then at the Time of Troubles, TSR started showing us the 2e Reality of FR. The proof that the realities extend backward and forward in time is that the Arcane Age FR products were viewed through the 2E Reality, even though, since they happened before the ToT, they "should" have been portrayed through the 1e Reality. Likewise, the same time periods of Dragonlance (e.g. the War of the Lance) have been portrayed through different Game Realities (1E Reality, 2E Reality, SAGA Reality, 3E Reality) with real, but subtle in-world differences.​

So the 5e Reality would be its own "game universe"...the only one which WotC is still actively supporting. Yet all the other Realities continue "off the screen". And just as each DM's campaign is an Alternate Multiverse, so is each DM's application of the rules an Alternate Game Reality. Here's the concept, with more examples: https://sites.google.com/site/dndphilmont/d-d-realities​

The existing Basic D&D text quoted above is fine for the Basic Game, but I suggest the DMG have a section explaining the Alternate Multiverse and Alternate Reality concept.

 

[wingsandsword]

Apparently the Dark Sun and Mystara pantheons won't be included in the PHB. Will they be in the DMG?

I can understand why they might not put Dark Sun directly in the PHB, since it's pretty far from the standard pseudo-medieval setting of D&D. Dark Sun was a good setting, and it has its fans, but the setting makes enough changes to things like how magic works and core classes that it's a textbook example of adapting D&D to fit a different style of fantasy world. For that, I can see them leaving it to the DMG or a later supplement.

Remember, Dark Sun doesn't have a pantheon. There are no Gods in the conventional sense, Clerics worship the elements, Druids have their powers of nature, and Templars worship the Dragon Kings, who aren't Gods but are instead epic-level mortal wizards who discovered how to grant spells as they begin to transform into giant dragons. Mystara doesn't have Gods in the conventional sense either, it has "Immortals" who are just plain different, being somewhere between super-powered immortal adventurers and conventional deities, and while some WotC works have tried to shoehorn Mystaran religion and planes into the Multiverse (Warriors of Heaven from very late 2e), I can see them doing the same thing with that they are doing for Dark Sun and waiting for the DMG or another supplement.

[*]Though it's a step in the direction of explicitly supporting homegrown settings, it's just not logical to say that "Alongside these worlds are hundreds of thousands more, created by generations of D&D players for their own games. And amid all the richness of the multiverse, you might create a world of your own." Unless WotC sponsors some sort of homebrew world design contest, or runs a regular column featuring homebrew worlds, or makes a dedicated "official homebrew" website or wiki, these "hundreds of thousands more" worlds will simply never be seen in the WotC multiverse. So might as well be clear that the WotC multiverse, as depicted in official books is one timeline and multiverse, and every single DM's campaign is a parallel D&D multiverse. Sure it's a "nice" improvement to "imply" the homebrew worlds are just off the edge of the WotC world map, but if they aren't going to be seen, then let's just say up front that the WotC Multiverse is one of "hundreds of thousands" of multiverses, all of which lie somewhere on the spectrum of homebrew and "close to canon". None of the DMs worlds are actually WotC's Multiverse. That's a good thing. Might as well be up front about it.

Infinite worlds. WotC can only publish so many. It's getting into petty semantics, but at least WotC is acknowledging that their published canon does not supercede the DM. It's better than their approach to the subject in 4e of saying that the canon of the Forgotten Realms was too complex for DM's, so they'll blow it all up so DM's don't have as much to keep track of.

[*]It will be interesting to see how 5e merges all the cosmologies into a single multiverse (a la 2nd edition Planescape, but with a more sophisticated and diverse retcon). As I've mentioned before, I suggest the DMG include a brief explanation of what D&D Brand Manager Bruce Heard, in the Dragon Magazine article "Up, Away, and Beyond" (http://pandius.com/upaway.html), referred to as "game universes". Just as Nerath was a well-meaning conceptual dead-end...in that it was an attempt to make a "generic" D&D world which included all the best adventure sites of previous editions, but which actually blurred away and genericized what had already been developed as distinct world settings...likewise so is the 5e multiverse a well-meaning dead-end...an improvement over the 4e conception, but a dead-end nevertheless.

I disagree.

You could have said the same thing about 2e's multiverse. Frankly, the reborn multiverse is one of the things I'm looking forward to in 5e.

Planescape and the D&D multiverse managed to put Dragonlance in the bigger picture, retconning Krynnish mages as being rather naive about planar layouts. It put Dark Sun in by saying it's Crystal Sphere was way off out of the way and unusually hard to penetrate, so Spelljammers should never find it, and that it is sealed from the Astral Plane and all outer planes, has a couple of special planes (Grey and Black) buried within its sphere, and the only interplanar access it has is via the Inner Planes. . .which works a lot better in 5e because the Athasian version of the Inner Planes is more of the 5e concept of "Border Elemental" planes than the normal Planescape elemental planes.

Connecting worlds not normally connected has been slowly built up for a while.

Eberron for example. It was originally written with its own cosmology. We don't know if 5e is going to just mean each Eberron plane was "actually" a Great Wheel plane such as Shavarath being Gehenna (or all the lower planes, connected via River Styx) or Idrian being Positive Energy for example, or if they are going to have their own mini-cosmology hooked to others.

However, the idea of Eberron connecting to the rest of the Multiverse didn't start with 5e. In Dungeons and Dragons Online, for a couple of years now, although set in Eberron, they introduced inter-planar crossovers with Forgotten Realms. The plot being that Lolth managed to build a connection to Eberron (something about her plot trying to basically turn an Eberron spider demon trapped into Khyber into her local avatar, and get access to that world as a deity), the players of the game thwart her effort, but it leaves open the planar connections between Eberron and not only the Abyss, but Realmspace (so PC's can travel back and forth). A bridge between two multiverses, or just a fairly isolated material world getting wrapped up in bigger planar politics?

They also have the Forgotten Realms part having an epic-level (~25th level) plot which basically implies that Mystra is in the process of being reborn and the players have to ensure that a young peasant girl can live up to her destiny of becoming the new Mystra, which is probably setting up for the rebuilt/restored Realms of 5e, maybe WotC's been setting up some of these plot elements for a while.

2e had the Plane of Shadow connecting not just the normal Great Wheel, but other multiverses and realities, and in d20 Modern it even connected the D&D multiverse to the "real world", albeit making it very difficult to go from the "real world" back to the Plane of Shadow once you step through.

According to this concept, all D&D Worlds potentially exist in all Game Realities, even though only a few of these combinations of World+Reality (Campaign Setting+Rules Edition) have actually been published by TSR and WotC. For example, the BECMI Reality has only been used as the lense for Mystara and Pelinore, but all the D&D worlds could potential be portrayed through this lense (such as a BECMI Dragonlance!), and in their BECMI portrayal they would be slightly different than their portrayal in other Realities. The 2e Reality of Mystara has also been portrayed (plus partial views of the 3e and 4e Reality of Mystara through the occasional magazine or web article).​

I'm fine with that. In this post-edition wars era, let us just be happier that we're all still playing D&D. There are and have been many editions, and they encompass many play styles. Acknowledging that setting and system are not inherently married is actually very progressive.

And all Realities extend to the beginning and end of the timeline. It's just that for some worlds, such as Forgotten Realms, our lense shifted. We were seeing the 1e Reality of Forgotten Realms, then at the Time of Troubles, TSR started showing us the 2e Reality of FR. The proof that the realities extend backward and forward in time is that the Arcane Age FR products were viewed through the 2E Reality, even though, since they happened before the ToT, they "should" have been portrayed through the 1e Reality. Likewise, the same time periods of Dragonlance (e.g. the War of the Lance) have been portrayed through different Game Realities (1E Reality, 2E Reality, SAGA Reality, 3E Reality) with real, but subtle in-world differences.​

One interesting thing about the "Arcane Age" products, is that they actually had rules in them for pseudo-1e in them when you went before the ToT. Nobody sincerely expected gaming groups to switch editions when moving through time, or for groups that didn't have 1e books to buy them just to run a time-travel adventure, but the Arcane Age box set did have rules for changing some things, mostly magic, to fit a 1e model better. Also, 2e had, in a lot of places, the idea that mortal advancement stopped at 30th level, and even Deities could only reach 40th level (2e High Level Campaigns, the Faiths & Avatars series, Dragon Kings), while 1e explicitly had no cap (Throne of Bloodstone). Since part of the whole point of Arcane Age was ridiculously high level wizards starting to go a little too far in exploring the limits to magic, that 30th level cap didn't make sense there, so it's another pseudo-edition change.

The existing Basic D&D text quoted above is fine for the Basic Game, but I suggest the DMG have a section explaining the Alternate Multiverse and Alternate Reality concept.

We'll see when the 5e DMG comes out. Honestly, it's the first DMG since 3.5e that I've actually looked forward to buying. I might not play 5e and stick to 3.5, but I'll at least buy the core books and see what I can take back to 3.5.

 

[TerraDave]

There will be appendices in the PHB on the multiverse. We don't have to wait too long to see how this goes!

 

[Dungeonosophy]

Infinite worlds. WotC can only publish so many. It's getting into petty semantics, but at least WotC is acknowledging that their published canon does not supercede the DM. It's better than their approach to the subject in 4e of saying that the canon of the Forgotten Realms was too complex for DM's, so they'll blow it all up so DM's don't have as much to keep track of.

Even better would be to instill a new culture into the 5e which explicitly encourages and even "expects" DMs to mix and match, and kit-bash any published setting. For example, though using the Forgotten Realms as the default world for published storylines (adventures) is fine, imagine if every Forgotten Realms adventure had a web enhancement which gave a suggested placement and adaptation for each of the other D&D worlds, and selection of alternate proper names for use in homebrew worlds. Imagine if the DMG's "world design" section explicitly suggested that Sword Coast map from the Starter Set be used only as the core of the DM's own hand-drawn continental map, with each DM expanding from the edge of the map, drawing Faerun themselves (or whatever the DM calls their continent).

We agree that the 5e approach is an improvement over the 4e approach. I am suggesting some subtle concepts (could be called "petty semantics") which would provide a clear and vigorous framework for instilling a culture of homebrew worlds and kit-bashing into this edition. I'm suggesting one step beyond what WotC appears to be committed to.

(Imagine if someone had suggested, when the 4e DMG was being finalized, that WotC do what it's now doing with 5e. They would've likely been ignored. I'm speaking of healthy concepts which go beyond the prevailing mindset.)

I disagree.

You could have said the same thing about 2e's multiverse. Frankly, the reborn multiverse is one of the things I'm looking forward to in 5e.

I agree that the 5e portrayal of a single coherent Multiverse will probably be interesting and well-done. I'm not really opposed to that. I'm just saying that the logic of not recognizing that the "rules" do have subtle in-game effects, is a conceptual dead-end. A subtle cul de sac in regard to clarity of logic. My post isn't so much against the 5e approach of bringing everything to a single Great Wheel Multiverse again. It's simply suggesting that the canonical statement of Bruce Heard about different "Realities" is the clear and logical way to justify all changes between how the worlds have been portrayed in different rules iterations.

For example, no matter how well Mearls & Co. retcon the BECMI Five Spheres cosmology of Mystara into the Great Wheel, the 5e Mystara will simply be somewhat different than the BECMI Mystara. I mean, in the BECMI Reality, there are basically only six character classes (Fighter, Thief, Magic-user, Cleric, Elf, Dwarf, Halfling). But in the 2E Reality of Mystara, we found out that a few of the Fighter NPCs are really Rangers and Paladins, and a few of the Thief NPCs are really Bards! In the BECMI Reality, all the Elves (disregarding some later rules expansions) are essentially Fighter/Magic-Users. Yet in the 2E Reality, some of the established Elf NPCs have other character classes. These are some significant in-world differences between the two Realities. It's most obvious in BECMI vs. AD&D. The SAGA Reality, through which Krynn has been viewed (along with a Dragon magazine article which gave suggestions for using SAGA for other D&D worlds), would be another very distinct lense. But there are similar in-world effects "encoded" into the fabric of each rules iteration.

2e had the Plane of Shadow connecting not just the normal Great Wheel, but other multiverses and realities, and in d20 Modern it even connected the D&D multiverse to the "real world", albeit making it very difficult to go from the "real world" back to the Plane of Shadow once you step through.

I suggest that D&D Earth be included in the 5e Multiverse. I have a page about that world here: https://sites.google.com/site/dndphilmont/d-d-earth

All the d20 Modern campaign models (and Masque of the Red Death, and other TSR/WotC rpgs set on Earth, such as Boot Hill and the 3e Robin Hood mini-setting) would exist in that world, with Urban Arcana as the primary model. Perhaps some Campaign Models would need to be Alternate Timelines, unless for "5e Earth", the Red Death and Bughunters invasion and the Dark•Matter storylines are supposed to all happen in the same timeline!

So, besides Alternate Multiverses and Alternate Realities, there'd also need to be the concept of Alternate Timelines (for a single world).

I suggest d20 Modern be re-released as a series of 5e "D&D Modern" genre books , with the modern rules and classes being 100% compatible and multi-classable with medieval character classes. https://sites.google.com/site/dndphilmont/genre-books

Acknowledging that setting and system are not inherently married is actually very progressive.


One interesting thing about the "Arcane Age" products, is that they actually had rules in them for pseudo-1e in them when you went before the ToT. Nobody sincerely expected gaming groups to switch editions when moving through time, or for groups that didn't have 1e books to buy them just to run a time-travel adventure, but the Arcane Age box set did have rules for changing some things, mostly magic, to fit a 1e model better. Also, 2e had, in a lot of places, the idea that mortal advancement stopped at 30th level, and even Deities could only reach 40th level (2e High Level Campaigns, the Faiths & Avatars series, Dragon Kings), while 1e explicitly had no cap (Throne of Bloodstone). Since part of the whole point of Arcane Age was ridiculously high level wizards starting to go a little too far in exploring the limits to magic, that 30th level cap didn't make sense there, so it's another pseudo-edition change.

Thanks for this...I didn't know that Arcane Age featured a way to model the 1E era through using the 2E rules! According to the "Heardian" Realities concept, if a group really used the 1E rules to play in the Arcane Age, then they would be experiencing the 1E Reality of Abeir-Toril. But if they used those "quasi-1E modeling" 2E rules, then they would be experiencing the 2E Reality. (If they used the 2E rules unaltered, then this would be an Alternate Timeline of the Second Reality.)

All Realities of Forgotten Realms--whether they be 3E FR, 4E FR, 5E FR, SAGA FR, BECMI FR, or OD&D FR (with fighting-men) "should" model the pre-ToT/post-ToT change in their rules sets (for example the change in magic) if they ever produce adventures which take place prior to the ToT. (This is similar to how 3e Dragonlance seamlessly included the 3e versions of the SAGA spellcasting classes, which only exist after a certain point in the timeline.)

I suggest that the 1E Reality of Forgotten Realms continued beyond the ToT, and on into the present day--it's just that the 1E Reality would need "quasi-2E" conversion notes to make it approximate the in-world changes. For example, after the ToT in the 1E Reality, the 1e combat system and other core rules would still be used, but the magic system would be shifted to approxmiate 2e-style magic.

 

[wingsandsword]

All the d20 Modern campaign models (and Masque of the Red Death, and other TSR/WotC rpgs set on Earth, such as Boot Hill and the 3e Robin Hood mini-setting) would exist in that world, with Urban Arcana as the primary model. Perhaps some Campaign Models would need to be Alternate Timelines, unless for "5e Earth", the Red Death and Bughunters invasion and the Dark•Matter storylines are supposed to all happen in the same timeline![/URL]

I'm pretty certain that Dark*Matter and Bughunters were not the same timeline. Dark Matter was the modern day prologue to a different TSR/WotC Sci-Fi game: Star*Drive.

I don't see why there couldn't be multiple Earths. Dark*Matter/Star*Drive, Masque of the Red Death, Urban Arcana, Agents of PSI, Shadow Hunters ect. Heck, d20 Future had a campaign model built on the whole Sliders-esque parallel worlds idea. Admittedly a few dozen versions of Earth would go along well with your idea of different parallel worlds of the canonical worlds.

I like the idea personally (for example, in my own Realms, the Spellplague never happened, the timeline diverged in early 1384 DR when the Faerunian Pantheon did not go to war with itself over a long series of misunderstandings all rooted in a tiny backwater conflict in Calimshan, which thus prevented the breaking of the Triad and thus they could warn Mystra about Shar's trap in 1385), and I might use something like your many worlds model one day in my own game, but I don't know if WotC will go to that extent in thinking it through.

 

[Dungeonosophy]

I'm pretty certain that Dark*Matter and Bughunters were not the same timeline. Dark Matter was the modern day prologue to a different TSR/WotC Sci-Fi game: Star*Drive.

I don't see why there couldn't be multiple Earths. Dark*Matter/Star*Drive, Masque of the Red Death, Urban Arcana, Agents of PSI, Shadow Hunters ect. Heck, d20 Future had a campaign model built on the whole Sliders-esque parallel worlds idea. Admittedly a few dozen versions of Earth would go along well with your idea of different parallel worlds of the canonical worlds.

The design team for "D&D Modern" would need to discern whether every Campaign Model is a whole different parallel Earth, or if some of them are in the same timeline (as you suggest with Dark.Matter and Star*Drive). It's hard to say without closely researching each Campaign Model. IIRC, even Urban Arcana used aliens from Star*Drive. But yeah, throw in a 5E version of the "Dimension X" d20M campaign model, of Alternity's "Tangents" world-hopping sourcebook, and of 2E's Chronomancer, and we'd have world-hopping fun.

I like the idea personally (for example, in my own Realms, the Spellplague never happened, the timeline diverged in early 1384 DR when the Faerunian Pantheon did not go to war with itself over a long series of misunderstandings all rooted in a tiny backwater conflict in Calimshan, which thus prevented the breaking of the Triad and thus they could warn Mystra about Shar's trap in 1385), and I might use something like your many worlds model one day in my own game, but I don't know if WotC will go to that extent in thinking it through.

Thanks for your responses. It'd be swell if WotC went to that extent. I mean, the Heardian Realities concept is already canon...it's just forgotten canon.

 

[Starfox]

It was said above that each GM's version of each campaign world is different. Dave's Forgotten Realms is not the same as Michaelas Forgotten Realms. I beleive this is true. Around here, the consequence of this is that different GMs tend to play in different worlds; I play Greyhawk, one friend plays Forgotten Realms (with some Mystarra elements), a third plays Golarion, another plays Warhammer's Old World. This helps reduce confusion and keep these worlds apart. It also colors our impression of each - I suppose my impression of the FR is colored by that GM's rather distinct style.

We're not purists for this approach and do not keep it up 100%, but its fairly significant.

 

[Dungeonosophy]

D&D realities updates

I posted an update to my D&D Realities page. (here)

I credit "wingsandsword" for the info about playing in the Arcane Age using 2E.

And I posted the description of the Alternate World Gates from Mentzer and Gygax's AC4: The Book of Marvelous Magic from 1985.

Here's the text:

ALTERNATE WORLD GATE

These are various odd, unfamiliar items. When touched, each item/gate summons a being from an alternate world who appears within one turn. At that time, a door appears near the item (even if in midair), and a being steps through the door, grabs the item before the characters can react (even if it is apparently secured, stored, or held), and steps back through the doorway. If the characters react quickly you may allow them to step through the door and arrive in the alternate world. Once in such a world, the characters must locate a gem of returning (q.v.) to return to the D&D® game world. The characters might not remain human after passing through the gate, depending on the alternate world they visit. You and the players should discuss the change at that time; severe changes should be optional, not forced. Alternate world gates should be selected, not randomly determined. The various items and beings linked to them are:

Blackjack: This small, heavy item is made of leather wrapped about a strip of steel. It summons an agent from the TOP SECRET® game: a short, wiry, blond human wearing a black woolen outfit. The agent might stop and eye the characters suspiciously but does not speak.

Laser Pistol: This is a plastic and chrome cylinder with a grip on one end. It cannot be fired without the user first spending 2-5 turns experimenting. The pistol summons a security robot from the GAMMA WORLD® game: a metallic humanoid with two arms and two tentacles, each about 33 inches long. The robot may mutter something about "restricted areas" but will not attack or otherwise converse.

Lute: This musical instrument is 2 feet long. A long, thin neck makes up one half and a round, flat-topped ornate box the other. Strings of unknown material are attached to each end. The lute summons a bard from the ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS® game—a normal wellarmed but unarmored human clad in green and carrying a flute. He may mutter something about incompatibility, but will not otherwise converse.

Medal: This is a small blue ribbon with a pin on the back and adorned with a silver metal object of odd design. The medal summons an ace pilot from the DAWN PATROL® game—a normal man garbed in strange clothes who wears a leather helmet, a strange device over the eyes, and a long scarf. Though silent, he might, if encountered outdoors, examine the sky carefully before departing.

Pocket Tool: This odd device is 3 inches long and may be unfolded to reveal a knife, corkscrew, and various other utensils of fine metal manufacture. The tool summons a Yazirian from the STAR FRONTIERS® game—a man-sized monkeylike being with membranes between its arms and body. The creature may bare its teeth and snarl at the characters but will not otherwise converse.

Star: This silver five-pointed item is apparently a brooch. The star summons a sheriff from the BOOT HILL® game—a normal man clad in fine but thin black leather who wears a metallic device strapped to each hip. He pins the star to his vest and might draw one of his hip devices, twirl it with one finger, and replace it. He then winks solemnly at the characters and departs.

Violin Case: This strangely-shaped box has three hasps; if opened, a golden, furry lining is seen but the box is empty. Both the lining and the material of the box are unfamiliar. The case summons a thug from the GANGBUSTERS™ game—a human clad entirely in black, wearing a cloth hat, and carrying an odd-looking metal tube with two handles and a large rounded middle. He may wave the device about threateningly but will not attack and cannot speak intelligently.

 

[Sonny]

It was said above that each GM's version of each campaign world is different. Dave's Forgotten Realms is not the same as Michaelas Forgotten Realms. I beleive this is true. Around here, the consequence of this is that different GMs tend to play in different worlds; I play Greyhawk, one friend plays Forgotten Realms (with some Mystarra elements), a third plays Golarion, another plays Warhammer's Old World. This helps reduce confusion and keep these worlds apart. It also colors our impression of each - I suppose my impression of the FR is colored by that GM's rather distinct style.

We're not purists for this approach and do not keep it up 100%, but its fairly significant.

I just want to point out they did go a bit farther in the Player's Handbook, as DnDPhilmont wanted. In the description for the Prime Material Plane they mention that players can imagine a published setting run by their DM as "one of thousands of parallel versions of the world, which might diverge wildly from the published version."

They don't say it you have to view it that way, which is good, because trying to tell Dungeon Masters that the (Forgotten Realms/Eberron/Greyhawk) campaign their running has to be a parallel version to the "official" one would have been against 5e's nature, and might have even irritated/offended some people.

 

[Dungeonosophy]

I just want to point out they did go a bit farther in the Player's Handbook, as DnDPhilmont wanted. In the description for the Prime Material Plane they mention that players can imagine a published setting run by their DM as "one of thousands of parallel versions of the world, which might diverge wildly from the published version."

That's good. Thanks for the heads-up.

They don't say it you have to view it that way, which is good, because trying to tell Dungeon Masters that the (Forgotten Realms/Eberron/Greyhawk) campaign their running has to be a parallel version to the "official" one would have been against 5e's nature, and might have even irritated/offended some people.

Yeah the word "official" itself is not a beautiful word. Really, each DM's (or gaming group's) campaign is completely sovereign and alone unto itself, as if no other world or multiverse existed. From this perspective, it's the DM's version which is "official" and "canonical".