D&D 5E A viable game and the vicious edition cycle

[n00bdragon]

Why exactly is it an issue again if the game is overhauled and rebooted every few years? I can't think of any industry or market (not even RPGs, with the sole and singular exception of D&D) where reinvention and rebooting every few years isn't the norm; and it's not just for the sake of selling something new. It's because the new stuff is (generally) better. The arc of progress is long, but it generally points upwards. You can't objectively compare the cars we drive or the computers we use with those in the 90s and say that somewhere we went wrong. That's not to say every iteration is perfect, or even better than the last (look at how every even version of Windows, or odd Stark Trek movie, is terrible).

You are never going to get a game that isn't rebooted. It's not because they need to sell the new shiny. It's because they want to make a better game.

 

[delericho]

I'm reasonably sure bloat is inevitable, at least for any modern version of D&D.

Here's the thing: my setting of choice is Eberron. That means that I want conversions for Warforged, Kalashtar, Changelings, Shifters, Artificers, and the Dragonmarks as soon as possible. (I don't actually need the setting updated - just the mechanics for those things. And, I suppose, some monsters and magic items. (Seriously, I haven't even finished reading Basic and already the lack of those things is off-putting. Though not enough to stop me buying the "big three" when they're out. )

But, equally, other players will want Dark Sun available (Muls, Thri-kreen, etc etc), others will want Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Birthright, Spelljammer... Then there's all the monsters that inevitably won't fit in the MM, each of which is no doubt somebody's particular favourite.

So people want all these things, and WotC will want to supply those things. After all, they'd be pretty crazy not to.

But while i only want a few things, and you only want a few (different) things, and that guy over there wants another few (different) things, the cumulative result of all of these together is bloat.

 

[Branduil]

I certainly hope 5e can do what no edition of D&D has done this millennium and last a full decade. I think it has a stronger chance than the previous two editions, as the system seems less complex and more stable than before. Bloat is inevitable but hopefully there's less emphasis from WotC on extreme levels of crunch and more on settings and APs.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Mearls has hinted at this, a lot. That their is a steady stream of new players to tap. That you want to support the game, but not overwhelm it.

That would sound a lot more like a good idea if it wasn't exactly what they tried with Essentials in 2010. It, too, was a simpler, lower-entry-cost, re-boot of the game followed by a slower pace of releases.

Well, and if there was more indications that 5e had been successfully designed to appeal to new players rather than to merely consolidate long-time and possibly returning ones in the wake of the edition war. Honestly, I get the impression that it was designed not so much to appeal to a new player, today, as to have hypothetical appeal to longtime players when they were new.

One reason I can't help but think that is that it does so successfully remind me of my early D&D experiences.

 

[Werebat]

If adventure paths are the reason that 5e can stay evergreen, I'd go from wishing they'd die in a fire to thinking they're pretty cool. Not to use, of course, but generally speaking.

What have you got against Adventure Paths? I almost never buy them myself but I'm wondering why someone would wish they'd "die in a fire". ???

 

[Werebat]

Why exactly is it an issue again if the game is overhauled and rebooted every few years? I can't think of any industry or market (not even RPGs, with the sole and singular exception of D&D) where reinvention and rebooting every few years isn't the norm; and it's not just for the sake of selling something new. It's because the new stuff is (generally) better. The arc of progress is long, but it generally points upwards. You can't objectively compare the cars we drive or the computers we use with those in the 90s and say that somewhere we went wrong. That's not to say every iteration is perfect, or even better than the last (look at how every even version of Windows, or odd Stark Trek movie, is terrible).

You are never going to get a game that isn't rebooted. It's not because they need to sell the new shiny. It's because they want to make a better game.

Bloat is inevitable; the cycle of new game - growth - bloat - renewal is just the nature of things. However there is progress of a sort (as you indicate) because as the circle is scribed over and over, the inscription etches deeper. There IS motion, "progress" of a sort -- like the path of a drilling corkscrew.

 

[Agamon]

What have you got against Adventure Paths? I almost never buy them myself but I'm wondering why someone would wish they'd "die in a fire". ???

I've been burned more than once, is all, so it's the idea of them from my own perspective. Obviously I don't care how other people play.

 

[doctorhook]

The adventure path model seems to have worked well for Pathfinder. Admittedly, people do talk about bloat there, too, but it certainly seems to be working well.

I want to believe the AP model is the way to go, but I'm not sure if Pathfinder is yet proof of the possibility of a perennial edition. Pathfinder is still only about five years old, and I believe it is drowning under its own bloat. On the other hand, even a Paizo "failure" in this regard isn't proof of impossibility either.

 

[Paraxis]

I like 5e but it is not perfect, I want them to eventually make my perfect D&D so I would love a 4-5 year life cycle for 5e and look forward to what can happen with a 6e already.

I started lurking at this site back when it was the best news source for 3e info, Eric's black pages how they bring back fond memories, anyway I enjoy the whole process of new editions.

I understand why some people want whatever the current edition is or their favorite edition to never end but I find the excitement of a new edition invigorates my interest in D&D.

 

[Gadget]

Well, if WOTC and MM is to be believed (and heaven knows many people will not) this issue has been brought up and discussed in several venues, even here on the boards quite extensively. The idea, as someone above mentioned is to monetize the brand of D&D, by releasing a solid, modular TTRPG with some support, and concentrate on licensing, video games, mobile apps, board games, movies, cartoons, toys, t-shirts, custom game accessories and such to bring in the revenue. It seems that the R&D for D&D has been kept somewhat lean this time around, it has been established that Pazio has more people working directly on Pathfinder than WOTC has on D&D. Hopefully this will reduce the pressure to recoup resource investment by churning out splats. They seem to have used 3rd parties early on, this may be a way to leverage the development talent pool without a significant investment on their part. They also have gone on record as saying that they want to produce fewer, 'big event' releases.

Now whether or not WOTC can successfully implement and stick to this plan is another question. One can always take the cynical perspective that all this talk is political mumbo jumbo designed to deflect attention away from the edition treadmill issue and it will be business as usual as soon as this release is out, but I think that is a little harsh.