D&D 5E Let's list the "broken" spells

[MoutonRustique]

This spell can be directly countered by Counterspell (as it is cast), or Mislead can be used as means to facilitate escape. For the mildly higher level wizard Contingency is an even better form of escape. And of course Move and Dash can also be used to escape.

Both Mislead and Contingency are not part of the basic rules - this does not invalidate their use, but I do not have the PHB : they are not possible solutions for me or mine.

Counterspell is not effective against a readied silence. Unless I've missed something, reactions are reserved for off-turn actions.

Every now and then, a party will have one or more of its members neutered, by various means. This not a serious consideration. If it occurs too often at a particular table, then it can be a concern.

I agree, once in a while, is not a problem, hence my specifying that it wasn't.

I'm not seeing how this works. To me, it looks as if the fight goes like this:

Cleric's turn: Cleric casts silence centered on enemy wizard.
Enemy wizard's turn: Enemy wizard moves 21 feet in any direction, then casts any spell she darned well feels like.

I am thinking more of using Silence as a readied action.

... I suppose you could ready silence to cast in response to the wizard casting a spell... but then you risk having your concentration disrupted if someone whacks you before the wizard's turn, and the wizard still has the counterspell option.

It can be a risk - but then again, maybe not that often. It requires that there are enemies in the initiative order between the cleric and enemy caster, that those enemies target the cleric and that they hit the cleric. Certainly possible, also certainly not always (maybe not even often.)

I've never understood this particular interpretation of "broken". Let's pretend, for a moment, that Silence works the way you suggest it does. Your Cleric has found it to be a particularly useful spell against incidental enemy spellcasters. It's a valid tactic, I mean, what is the spell for if not to screw up enemy spellcasters? Let your Cleric have her victories.

I agree that using limited resources to dominate an encounter once in while is often the goal of spells, but it is usually by using the higher levels that one can cast - silence will not be that for very long...

He's your Big Bad. By definition, your party's typical tactics should be next to pointless against him. He's seen it all before, and he's unimpressed. That's what makes him terrifying; the party shouldn't be able to just brute force him. If he can be defeated in the same way as any other encounter, then he's not a Big Bad, he's just another encounter.

No power or spell exists to easily counter this supposedly "broken" (or anything else that supposedly breaks BBEG encounters)? You're the DM, and he's an immensely powerful figure who exists in the same world as these very powers. Invent one. You can bet your Big Bad would've done so already.

Your Big Bad didn't get to where he is today without having a crapton of contingencies.

Having to custom invent things to specifically counter-act a single low-level spell is pretty much my definition of "not working as intended with important negative impact" - or "broken".

The whole of my point isn't that there are NO escapes, it is that it will neuter a significant foe, even at higher levels, for very little cost for a significant portion of the encounter.

What I've seen so far is that fights rarely get to round 4. If the main villain is a mighty caster but he's stopped from casting for 2 rounds... that's a lot of "pow" canceled by a low-level resource...

All of this said, as I've said before, it may just be me...

 

[Mouseferatu]

Unless I've missed something, reactions are reserved for off-turn actions.

You've missed something.

Reactions (if you have any available) can be taken any time the trigger is met, including in the midst of your own turn.

 

[kerbarian]

I am thinking more of using Silence as a readied action.

I don't think that would work to stop a spell. Readied actions happen "right after the trigger finishes", so if you react to someone casting a spell, the spell will go off successfully and then you'll cast Silence.

Counterspell is special in that it's a reaction you can take that interrupts the casting -- if it were a readied action it would be too late.

 

[pemerton]

The spell doesn't need to say that the wall is cover. It already says that nothing can pass through, which is, quite literally, the definition of cover.

There is no exhaustive list of things that do or do not count as cover. That would be completely insane. A thing is cover if it can block attacks, and the DM decides how much cover it provides.

Of course there is no exhaustive list of things that count as cover. That doesn't mean that, where a spell effect is intended to provide cover, it wouldn't be better drafting to actually mention that.

Wall of Force says "Nothing can physically pass through the wall." (emphasis added)

It doesn't have any special spell-blocking abilities -- it's an indestructible sheet of glass.

<snip>

The spellcasting rules say that you can't target through total cover, but the definition of total cover is also that you're "completely concealed by an obstacle."

It's also notable that similar spells (Leomund's Tiny Hut, Forcecage) explicitly say they block spells, while Wall of Force uses the qualifier that it blocks physical things.

These are relevant considerations also.

They reinforce my view that the drafting of Wall of Force isnot "simple" or "flexible" but simply bad.

 

[MoutonRustique]

You've missed something.

Reactions (if you have any available) can be taken any time the trigger is met, including in the midst of your own turn.

I don't think that would work to stop a spell. Readied actions happen "right after the trigger finishes", so if you react to someone casting a spell, the spell will go off successfully and then you'll cast Silence.

Counterspell is special in that it's a reaction you can take that interrupts the casting -- if it were a readied action it would be too late.

In this case, I am mistaken and now understand why silence isn't an insurmountable threat. Thank you.

 

[CapnZapp]

I've never understood this particular interpretation of "broken". Let's pretend, for a moment, that Silence works the way you suggest it does. Your Cleric has found it to be a particularly useful spell against incidental enemy spellcasters. It's a valid tactic, I mean, what is the spell for if not to screw up enemy spellcasters? Let your Cleric have her victories.

Enter Big Bad. He's a scary powerful wizard. Your Cleric, trained to cast Silence to deal with spellcasters, does exactly that.

Then, your Big Bad counters it. Shrugs it off completely.

Cue terrified looks from the party.

He's your Big Bad. By definition, your party's typical tactics should be next to pointless against him. He's seen it all before, and he's unimpressed. That's what makes him terrifying; the party shouldn't be able to just brute force him. If he can be defeated in the same way as any other encounter, then he's not a Big Bad, he's just another encounter.

No power or spell exists to easily counter this supposedly "broken" (or anything else that supposedly breaks BBEG encounters)? You're the DM, and he's an immensely powerful figure who exists in the same world as these very powers. Invent one. You can bet your Big Bad would've done so already.

Your Big Bad didn't get to where he is today without having a crapton of contingencies.

Sorry but anytime you need to have your NPCs break the rules to avoid some effect that effect is the very definition of "broken".

If it helps, read "Broken" to mean "the game would be better off without it, since it actively hinders how the DM is trying to tell a story".

If you don't have a problem with broken spells, since your BBEGs simply ignore inconvenient game rules, that's fine.

But saying you've never understood the sentiment? That's a stretch. Can't you empathize with DMs trying to run their monsters within the rules as given? Or see the frustration of players denied the written effects of their chosen powers?

No, I'm sure you can and you do. And that we really are in agreement the rules should be rid of any effects that can auto-insta-shut down a BBEG and that can't be avoided by reasonably normal means. Cheers!

 

[Cyberen]

Interesting thread !
Wall of Force : for ages, this spell has created a barrier impervious to magic. Of course, it still does. The wording could have been clearer, but people hereare being desingenuous. I would go against RAW and allow a dex save or an acrobatics check to avoid being trapped, or even the spending of a reaction to chose. The wall is supposed to be defensive. I would of course keep the cheesy trapping for Forcecage
Contagion looks to me like an empowered Bestow curse, which is nice. Slimy doom is cheesy and the stunlock effect is imho bad design (as a 8th level version, maybe)
Having Polymorph being limited both by spell level and recipient level would prevent some abuse.
Animal shapes is crazy ! Speak of an unstoppable army of shapechangers. I would promote it to 9th level (when balance is no longer an issue...) and nerf it quite a bit.
True polymorph brings back the wackiness of the "polymorph any object" of old. I don't know if it's a good news...

 

[Quartz]

It seems to me that many of the first level spells are broken when used against apprentice-level PCs. Sleep, Chromatic Orb, Inflict Wounds etc. All are killers to low-level PCs and can threaten higher-level PCs on a critical. The latter is by design, of course; the former strikes me as a big problem.

Would it be unreasonable to limit the damage-dealing spells to 1 die of damage per round? So Inflict Wounds when cast at 1st level would do 1d10 per round for 3 rounds? If raised to a 2nd level spell, they could do 2 dice of damage per round (so Inflict Wounds would do 2d10 damage for 2 rounds), if raised to 3rd 3 dice, etc? This way the spells would still be serious but not the immediate killers they are now.

 

[Quartz]

I've never understood this particular interpretation of "broken". Let's pretend, for a moment, that Silence works the way you suggest it does. Your Cleric has found it to be a particularly useful spell against incidental enemy spellcasters. It's a valid tactic, I mean, what is the spell for if not to screw up enemy spellcasters? Let your Cleric have her victories.

Enter Big Bad. He's a scary powerful wizard. Your Cleric, trained to cast Silence to deal with spellcasters, does exactly that.

Then, your Big Bad counters it. Shrugs it off completely.

And you don't need anything special to model this. Your Big Bad has just Counterspelled the cleric's Silence. Or, to plunder previous editions, has a Globe of Invulnerability, or Spell Immunity: Silence, or any of a number of other possible counters.

 

[fuindordm]

Slightly off-topic because I don't think they're broken, but I'm disappointed that the power word spells are still one standard action instead of usable as bonus actions. In AD&D they were all one-segment spells.

I love that spells like Clone, Imprisonment, and Simulacrum are still available in all their baroque glory.

So far the most overpowered spell that I've noticed is Eldritch Blast. Did warlocks really need an attack cantrip that much better than the other cantrips?