Why do D&D players put such an emphasis on rules and tactics?

[Crothian]

The thing is, in all of the years I've been visiting ENworld, worldbuilding/narrative/character fluff threads barely get any responses.

No one ever wants to hear about other people's character or world. Most of the time they are boring and not creative. With rules those are already written so people can argue about those easier. For a hobby that is thought of as a creative outlet most of the people playing it are just not that creative.

 

[Haffrung]

When I look at the character classes, what I look for is how well they’ll fit with a particular character I have in mind, or how cool they would be to play (in a narrative alter-ego way). The last thing I really care about is the best combo of abilities or what mechanical advantage they may or may not have over the other classes. I do recognise that combat and strategic play have their place in the game, but it isn’t the be-all-and-end-all of how you can have fun with it.

As do the players in my groups. Only a handful of the people I've played D&D with had any interest in mechanically-optimizing characters. But it's also worth nothing most of the people I've played with found little appealing in 3E or 4E for that very reason.

They don't, it's only us the vocal minority on the forums who realy care to argue about it.

There's that too. And I think for people who aren't actively playing (and there are a lot), char op and analyzing rules are a kind of sub-hobby.

I think this is at least partly true. D&D has always had a certain amount of tactical richness - and so did most other RPGs back in the day. There has always been a certain appeal to using good tactical combat in the games and a lot of players, particularly those also into board games, respond positively (maybe even excessively) to them. So I want to emphasize that this element has been in the game longer than 3e has been.

But it's worth noting that by the standards of other fantasy RPGs in the early 80s, D&D was not tactically rich. People who wanted a more wargamey approach to fantasy RPGs played Runequest, Palladium Fantasy, or DragonQuest. There were few fantasy RPGs that were less crunchy than D&D when it came to combat. Maybe tunnels and Trolls? So if you wanted a combat-lite fantasy RPG, D&D really was your best choice. Especially B/X D&D.

Then I think the increased tactical focus brought on by Players Option: Combat and Tactics and how it eventually led to 3e doubled-down on the rules and tactical oriented part of the game. No doubt TSR and then WotC were responding to demand they identified in the gamer market, but it's a feedback loop. Demand generates rules generates more discussion about nitpicky rules and tactics generates demand for more or revised rules and so on.

There definitely came a tipping-point where increased PC options and more robust tactical play became the mainstream approach to D&D. The publishers catered to that audience, and the audience came to be drawn from people who would have played Napoleonics wargames if they were born 20 years earlier.

 

[Oryan77]

For a hobby that is thought of as a creative outlet most of the people playing it are just not that creative.

That could explain the lack of responses to threads about fluff. But I'm grateful to the creative people that do exist. Whenever I have a mind fart, I get excited when I post online looking for ideas. I love hearing what the creative crowd throws my way and I can't wait to read the replies. Even if there are not many responses. I've implemented lots of things that people threw my way.

Even crunch-wise though, people lack creativity. A lot of character builds you see are nothing more than something that a player just went online and found. Maybe not 100%, but most everything was compiled together in his build based off of aspects that others suggested in optimization forums. I really don't like DMing those type of players. The last player I kicked out of the group insisted that his build was thought up all by himself. He had only been playing D&D for a couple of months, but I could point to the exact threads where he copied his build. He didn't deviate an inch from the best known 3.5 Conjurer builds. Even right down to the obscure alternate class features. His choices were flawless, including his spell selection. But he swore to me that he was just good at optimizing characters and likes to read all of the sourcebooks. None of my other players bought his BS, and it was actually them that talked me into kicking him out. That wasn't the only reason they didn't want him around though.

I don't mind going online to look for build help if you have an idea in mind but can't find rules to make it happen. It's when a player flat out copies a build, or parts of builds that I don't like. As a DM, that's extremely uninspiring. I'm not really interested in DMing someone elses PC. I want to DM your PC. There seems to be too much emphasis on "power" with players these days. They are so worried about not being the best, that they have to go online to get tips on how to be the best. I'd compare that to you saying people playing are just not that creative.

Even worse, is when I see players starting threads to ask strangers how to deal with events happening in their game. Uhg. So now their DM isn't just DMing him, he's DMing the entire gaming community. It's like their PC found a library with internet access and is asking for advice on how to deal with the local evil necromancer and save the princes.

 

[pemerton]

Well, maybe there would be some purchase into threads like ‘help me write this adventure storyline’ or ‘help me build this character’ or ‘help me create this world’?

I generally find that when I post threads about scenario development, I don't get as much response as on threads about rules or GMing techniques.

The thing is, in all of the years I've been visiting ENworld, worldbuilding/narrative/character fluff threads barely get any responses.

In other words, this, or something ike it.

Also, have a look at the current 13th Age thread on the G-modules. Of half-a-dozen replies, at least one is just drive-by spam telling the OP that s/he's doing it wrong. Who needs that?

 

[Crothian]

Also, have a look at the current 13th Age thread on the G-modules. Of half-a-dozen replies, at least one is just drive-by spam telling the OP that s/he's doing it wrong. Who needs that?

13th Age is in general going to get a lot less posts because fewer people are familiar with the game.

 

[Derren]

D&D was never able to get away from its wargaming roots, no matter how hard the designers tried (or didn't).
In the end the majority of D&D is about tactical turn based combat where rules matter a lot. Everything else is pretty much just an addon to the combat rules. So its no surprise that all the discussions are about how to get better at combat using said rules.

 

[Pickles JG]

D&D was never able to get away from its wargaming roots, no matter how hard the designers tried (or didn't).
In the end the majority of D&D is about tactical turn based combat where rules matter a lot. Everything else is pretty much just an addon to the combat rules. So its no surprise that all the discussions are about how to get better at combat using said rules.

Indeed that's why it's the best role-playing game with little of the stuff that detracts from the important parts.

 

[Yora]

It's not that they even tried with getting away from Wargaming with 3rd and 4th edtion. Those were clearly designed to put more emphasis on wargaming than any previous edition before.

 

[Evenglare]

D&D was never able to get away from its wargaming roots, no matter how hard the designers tried (or didn't).
In the end the majority of D&D is about tactical turn based combat where rules matter a lot. Everything else is pretty much just an addon to the combat rules. So its no surprise that all the discussions are about how to get better at combat using said rules.

I must be playing wrong then, most of my 6 hour games involve roleplaying and maybe one combat. Huh. Sometimes none at all. Weird. I wonder why 5e's combat chapter is so short, and 4e's combat focused game did so poorly selling then.

 

[TrippyHippy]

It's not that they even tried with getting away from Wargaming with 3rd and 4th edtion. Those were clearly designed to put more emphasis on wargaming than any previous edition before.

And now we are in 5E where we evidently are moving away from that aspect again.