D&D 5E So, thoughts on the Paladin now?

[Thank Dog]

With the caveat that it's limited use, I quite agree with you. I always prepare spells with the intention of casting them... but in the end, I smite Smite SMITE! more often than not. And my DM has us on a homebrew where the baddies are mainly undead, so I feel I've been holding my own even with a Barbarian Berzerker in the party.

Heh, 2nd-level the paladin smites undead for 4d8+3 assuming a longsword and +3 Strength and 3d8 of it is radiant, so double damage. As a DM I'd totally describe that as the undead exploding in a shower of sparks and light

 

[Sitara]

Paladins can also combine spell smites with divine smite in the same round. So a Paladin with access to 5th level slots and spells and a greatsword could Divine Smite & Improve Divine Smite per attack for 5d8+1d8+2d6+5d8+1d8+2d6 & add in another 5d10 for Banishing Smite as a bonus action all in the same round (Paladin gets a second attack per round at 5th level). If all this sends the opponent to under 50 hitpoints (and it very well could due to the massive damage), it gets banished thanks to Banishing Smites secondary effect.

Yes it is quite expensive in terms of resources as spell slots are limited, but it's something really nice to pull out on the BBEG, or it's top minion. Or right before you know you are about to take a long rest

 

[Iosue]

The paladin and the Protection fighting style go together thematically like peanut butter and jelly. And it is hugely satisfying: "The big bad crits you!" "Why don't you roll that d20 again?"

I have a Fighter rather than a Paladin, but I definitely agree. My only problem is that the group I play with instituted a 4e-like flanking rule, so when I try to get adjacent with my compatriots to offer my Protection, they keep going around the bad guy so they can be opposite me. That can be hugely frustrating.

 

[pemerton]

Paladins are always described as having Auras, yet until now have never had those as actual meaningful class features.

Well, in AD&D they had an aura of protection from evil 10' R, which wasn't too bad.

 

[Tormyr]

I have a Fighter rather than a Paladin, but I definitely agree. My only problem is that the group I play with instituted a 4e-like flanking rule, so when I try to get adjacent with my compatriots to offer my Protection, they keep going around the bad guy so they can be opposite me. That can be hugely frustrating.

Ugh, I'm sorry. These house rules can have so many unintended consequences. Flanking in 5e already means everyone is doing focus fire, and if someone wants advantage, another can use the Help action or a shove to knock the target prone so everyone gets advantage.

 

[Boarstorm]

I take it that he hasn't been taking advantage of Divine Smite? That turns a paladin into a damage monster.

He has. But with his limited number of spell slots, and the fact that they only return after a long rest, his overall damage is lower than that of a great weapon battlemaster. He can lay out the hurt when he needs to (especially against undead), but it's much less frequent than what the fighter is doing. Which isn't really a critique, you'll note. He's more than happy contributing as a "support" character with his lay on hands, his protection fighting style, and by using his spells to keep other party members out of harms' way.

 

[Joe Liker]

He has. But with his limited number of spell slots, and the fact that they only return after a long rest, his overall damage is lower than that of a great weapon battlemaster. He can lay out the hurt when he needs to (especially against undead), but it's much less frequent than what the fighter is doing. Which isn't really a critique, you'll note. He's more than happy contributing as a "support" character with his lay on hands, his protection fighting style, and by using his spells to keep other party members out of harms' way.

Yes, this is as it should be. Someone with healing and strong defensive abilities shouldn't expect to maintain the same DPR as a pure damage-dealing build.

 

[AntiStateQuixote]

I take it that he hasn't been taking advantage of Divine Smite? That turns a paladin into a damage monster.

I'm playing a half-elf vengeance paladin, level 3, in D&D Encounters.

Last night I dropped a major hit on the boss in episode 3 of Hoard of the Dragon Queen.

Had oath of enmity active (bonus action, 1 minute advantage on attacks vs. single target). Had previously cast Hunter's Mark (bonus action to mark a target for extra 1d6 damage on a hit - 1 hour concentration spell).

On round three of the combat I landed a critical hit and decided that would be a good time to lay down the divine smite.

(1d8 longsword + 1d6 hunter's mark + 2d8 divine smite) dice doubled plus 3 (STR mod) plus 2 (dueling fighting style) = 49 damage and one beheaded half dragon BBEG.

I've use lay on hands to keep folk vertical, almost always have hunter's mark active (lost concentration once in three total castings), and occasionally dropped a cure wounds spell when other healers couldn't do the job.

The character's been a ton of fun. Hit 4th level last night. I'm expecting Heavy Armor Mastery to be a big boost to staying power.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

My favorite change is that they've moved a lot of the fiddly little class features into the spell list -- it just makes a lot of sense to me.

This.

For previous editions by accidents of history, mundane (and mostly mundane) classes had their coolest tricks stuck in a rigid "A for X times per day, B for Y times per day, etc." framework. There was underlying logic there, except that it was easy to write down that way.

The net result was a punitive degree on inflexibility to the non-spellcasters. Now that spellcasters are all spontaneous, and thereby even more flexible, the old ways made no sense. From a design perspective it is now easier to gauge tradeoffs both within one class and between classes.

 

[Zaruthustran]

Loving the new Paladin. The straight class is terrific (the spells are great), and the subclasses are thematically distinct and mechanically sound.

The Devotion Paladin, in particular, is a monster. Sacred Weapon for +Cha to attacks, combined with the Great Weapon Master feat's "-5 to attack in exchange for +10 damage" is really scary. Especially after the Extra Attack at 5th level. And especially after Polearm master lets you make another attack as a bonus action (who cares if the weapon die is 1d4 when the damage bonus is 10 + Str mod?). Add another especially for out-of-turn attack of opportunity when an enemy approaches.

Throw on Divine Favor or Crusader's Mantle, and (assuming level 5 human 16 Str 16 Cha):

Attack 1: +4 Glaive attack (+3 prof, +3 Str, +3 Cha, -5 Great Weapon Master) 1d10 (reroll 1 or 2) + 3 +10 +1d4 radiant
Attack 2: +4 Glaive attack 1d10 (reroll 1 or 2) + 3 +10 +1d4 radiant
Bonus action attack: +4 Glaive butt attack 1d4 (reroll 1 or 2) + 3 +10 +1d4 radiant

You'd not want to use this on a high AC foe. But against that AC 11 ogre? You'll probably drop his AC 11 butt in one round. You can easily fell a warhorse with a single hit. That's pretty good.