Antimagic Ray Wizard Spell Clarification

[alcoholander]

I've been thinking about Antimagic Ray. It’s a 7th level abjuration spell in the wizard/sorcerer list from Spell Compendium.
Just to be sure I would like to ask for some clarification:
1) If the ray is targeted at a creature, does it allow a will safe to negate the effect?
2) Is a creature under the effect of the spell practically immune to spells, spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities for the spell's duration?

Edit: It seems to me that Antimagic Ray could be used both offensively and defensively. If you cast it on an enemy spellcaster he won't be able to use any spells, spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities, which is not that bad at all. The party fighter/barbarian will have no problems handling it. At the same time if used on a party character who doesn't rely on casting spells (a frenzied berserker in our current party), no enemy spell will affect him while all magic items used by the character will still function normally. Of course that means buffs and heals won't affect him either but sometimes the trade-off is well worth it.

 

[Greenfield]

As far as I know, the magic items of said Frenzied Berserker will be shut down by an Anti Magic Ray.
[EDIT]I stand corrected. I just checked Anti Magic Ray, and it is target specific, not an area. Their equipment is explicitly excluded from the effect. [/EDIT]

Under the general description for AntiMagic, it says that only Epic items and spells, and deities operate inside one. No spells, no spell-like abilities, no items, and few if any spernatural abilities.

ANTIMAGIC
An antimagic field spell or effect cancels magic altogether. An antimagic effect has the following powers and characteristics.
• No supernatural ability, spell-like ability, or spell works in an area of antimagic (but extraordinary abilities still work).
• Antimagic does not dispel magic; it suppresses it. Once a magical effect is no longer affected by the antimagic (the antimagic fades, the center of the effect moves away, and so on), the magic returns. Spells that still have part of their duration left begin functioning again, magic items are once again useful, and so forth.
• Spell areas that include both an antimagic area and a normal area, but are not centered in the antimagic area, still function in the normal area. If the spell’s center is in the antimagic area, then the spell is suppressed.
• Golems and other constructs, elementals, outsiders, and corporeal undead, still function in an antimagic area (though the antimagic area suppresses their spellcasting and their supernatural and spell-like abilities normally). If such creatures are summoned or conjured, however, see below.
• Summoned or conjured creatures of any type, as well as incorporeal undead, wink out if they enter the area of an antimagic effect. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away.
• Magic items with continuous effects do not function in the area of an antimagic effect, but their effects are not canceled (so the contents of a bag of holding are unavailable, but neither spill out nor disappear forever).
• Two antimagic areas in the same place do not cancel each other out, nor do they stack.
• Wall of force, prismatic wall, and prismatic sphere are not affected by antimagic. Break enchantment, dispel magic, and greater dispel magic spells do not dispel antimagic. Mage’s disjunction has a 1% chance per caster level of destroying an antimagic field. If the antimagic field survives the disjunction, no items within it are disjoined.

Now, oddly, you can cast some spells through an AntiMagic effect. Some are specifically designed to be cast into them.

Any Area of Effect spell, such as Lightning Bolt or Cone of Cold cast will affect areas outside the AntiMagic normally, so long as the point of origin for the spell is outside the AM area as well.

One minor abuse of this might be: Caster is standing 75 feet (15 squares) away from a Beholder or other creature using an AntiMagic Ray (either as the spell or the natural ability). Since these versions of AntiMagic have a 60 foot range, the caster is outside the area itself, so they throw Lightning Bolt. The LB spell is an Area of Effect. It's suppressed within the AntiMagic effect itself, but works normally both before and after that AntiMagic area. The Beholder or caster of the AMR is not actually inside their own AntiMagic area, so... ZZZAAAPPP!

There is debate about Line of Effect on tricks like this, so consult with your DM first. AntiMagic never says it interrupts Line of Effect, but many believe that it does/should.

Instantaneous Conjurations effects can affect creatures or objects inside an AntiMagic field, so long as the Conjuration itself takes place outside.

For example, a Wall of Iron could be cast outside the field, then allowed to topple on someone inside.

More directly, there are several of the Orb spells that conjure Acid, Lightning or whatever in the caster's hand and then project it at a target. The acid (or lightning or whatever) isn't considered "magical" once conjured, any more than the Wall of Iron is, and so will continue to exist within the AntiMagic area.

Even the Cantrip Acid Splash will work this way, for exactly the same reason: The spell Conjures the acid, then sends it. Duration is Instantaneous, so the acid, once conjured, is "real".

 

[delericho]

1) If the ray is targeted at a creature, does it allow a will safe to negate the effect?

It's a really badly written spell, where they appear to have copied some text from the version from "Draconomicon" but not some other, so that the whole doesn't make much sense.

Given that the text of the spell says "You must succeed on a ranged touch attack with the ray to strike a target. The target, if struck, functions as if it were inside an antimagic field (PH 200) if it fails its Will save.", I would grant a save. However, following the text from the "Draconomicon" version, I would only grant a save to an object if that object were attended.

2) Is a creature under the effect of the spell practically immune to spells, spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities for the spell's duration?

Essentially. See the description of antimagic field for more details.

Edit: It seems to me that Antimagic Ray could be used both offensively and defensively. If you cast it on an enemy spellcaster he won't be able to use any spells, spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities, which is not that bad at all. The party fighter/barbarian will have no problems handling it. At the same time if used on a party character who doesn't rely on casting spells (a frenzied berserker in our current party), no enemy spell will affect him while all magic items used by the character will still function normally. Of course that means buffs and heals won't affect him either but sometimes the trade-off is well worth it.

Yep.

 

[delericho]

One minor abuse of this might be: Caster is standing 75 feet (15 squares) away from a Beholder or other creature using an AntiMagic Ray (either as the spell or the natural ability). Since these versions of AntiMagic have a 60 foot range, the caster is outside the area itself, so they throw Lightning Bolt. The LB spell is an Area of Effect. It's suppressed within the AntiMagic effect itself, but works normally both before and after that AntiMagic area. The Beholder or caster of the AMR is not actually inside their own AntiMagic area, so... ZZZAAAPPP!

There is debate about Line of Effect on tricks like this, so consult with your DM first. AntiMagic never says it interrupts Line of Effect, but many believe that it does/should.

However, the definition of line of effect does say, "A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect." Since the spell can't affect the areas inside the antimagic field, it prevent those "straight, unblocked" lines from being drawn.

(Note, though, that it would only suppress those lines, not dispel them. So, in theory, if the spell being cast 'though' the field had a longer duration than the field, then it would expand accordingly when the field goes down. Obviously, though, that doesn't apply with instantaneous spells such as lightning bolt.)

 

[alcoholander]

It's a really badly written spell, where they appear to have copied some text from the version from "Draconomicon" but not some other, so that the whole doesn't make much sense.

Given that the text of the spell says "You must succeed on a ranged touch attack with the ray to strike a target. The target, if struck, functions as if it were inside an antimagic field (PH 200) if it fails its Will save.", I would grant a save. However, following the text from the "Draconomicon" version, I would only grant a save to an object if that object were attended.

Exactly where my confusion comes from. Although "Spell Compendium" should have priority over "Draconomicon" an important part of the spell description was left out.

If a will save is allowed only to an attended magical object the spell will be quite strong against a hostile enemy caster/creature with spell-like or Su abilities.

 

[delericho]

If a will save is allowed only to an attended magical object the spell will be quite strong against a hostile enemy caster/creature with spell-like or Su abilities.

Agreed. It's perhaps worth noting that the convention in 3.5e is that a spell generally requires either an attack roll (in this case ranged touch) or a save. Very few spells require both. However, it is also the convention that a spell that requires just the attack roll is generally weaker than the one that requires the save, largely because saves scale faster than touch AC (especially for creatures such as dragons).

Of course, none of that really helps in this case.

 

[Random Bystander]

However, the definition of line of effect does say, "A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect." Since the spell can't affect the areas inside the antimagic field, it prevent those "straight, unblocked" lines from being drawn.

(Note, though, that it would only suppress those lines, not dispel them. So, in theory, if the spell being cast 'though' the field had a longer duration than the field, then it would expand accordingly when the field goes down. Obviously, though, that doesn't apply with instantaneous spells such as lightning bolt.)

If an anti-magic field blocked Line of Effect, there would be little need to note that spells travelling through an anti-magic field are suppressed. Furthermore, spells are suppressed, not blocked. RAI seems to be that an anti-magic field only suppresses magic that is actually inside the anti-magic field itself, and only while that magic is inside the field itself, and that it does not provide a defence to enemies on the other side of the field.

However, I strongly suspect this argument or one like it has occurred often on the internet.

 

[Greenfield]

However, the definition of line of effect does say, "A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect." Since the spell can't affect the areas inside the antimagic field, it prevent those "straight, unblocked" lines from being drawn.

(Note, though, that it would only suppress those lines, not dispel them. So, in theory, if the spell being cast 'though' the field had a longer duration than the field, then it would expand accordingly when the field goes down. Obviously, though, that doesn't apply with instantaneous spells such as Lightning Bolt.)

Prevents the "straight unblocked lines from being drawn"? Funny, my pen works on the battle mat no matter what spells the PCs are using.

Okay, bad humor, but the point is valid.

The way through an AMF is free and unblocked, at least as far as the AMF is concerned. You can see through it, you could shoot an arrow or throw a rock through it. It's open space. The field itself doesn't block spells, or even line of sight, it simply suppresses the spell's effect within its area. The rules are actually pretty clear on what happens when an AoE spell includes an AntiMagic zone: The spell functions normally in all areas not suppressed by the AM zone.

Now if you want to play with this idea, consider the situation where a caster has an Anti Magic Field up, and there's an obstacle in the field as well. The Lightning Bolt cast through the AMF never encounters the obstacle, since it's in a spell-suppression area. Does it then resume on the other side of the AMF, or is its Line of Effect blocked by the obstacle it never encountered?

How's that for a rules headache?

Now obviously my reading of the spell and Anti Magic rules is subject to dispute. Like I said, check with your DM before trying it. But, taken as written, AMF doesn't block Line of Effect, it just removes some area from what an Area of Effect spell covers.

(For those in love with physics: "Quantum Tunneling" occurs when a particle enters an area where the laws of physics don't allow for its existence. What follows is that the particle ceases to exist in that area, "tunneling" to the far side and then reappearing. The transit time has been measured as faster than the speed of light, and some argue that it's instantaneous. Researchers have been able to cause Electrons to "tunnel" for over a hundred feet.

This physics example is particularly appropriate when considering Lightning Bolt, since it's a stream of free running charged subatomic particles. (Electrons) ).

And, by the way, it's *always* a bad idea to try and mix physics and magic in the same argument. And that includes the example I just gave.

 

[Random Bystander]

And, by the way, it's *always* a bad idea to try and mix physics and magic in the same argument. And that includes the example I just gave.

If it has repeatable, observable patterns, you can apply science to it.

Edit: That smiley looks somewhat more serious than intended for my post.

 

[delericho]

Prevents the "straight unblocked lines from being drawn"? Funny, my pen works on the battle mat no matter what spells the PCs are using.

Cover your battlemat with a film that doesn't allow the ink to stick - it's suppressed in that area, but not dispelled. Now can you draw the lines?

The way through an AMF is free and unblocked, at least as far as the AMF is concerned. You can see through it, you could shoot an arrow or throw a rock through it. It's open space. The field itself doesn't block spells, or even line of sight, it simply suppresses the spell's effect within its area.

And that's the point: because the effect is suppressed, you don't have line of effect.

(For those in love with physics: "Quantum Tunneling" occurs when a particle enters an area where the laws of physics don't allow for its existence. What follows is that the particle ceases to exist in that area, "tunneling" to the far side and then reappearing. The transit time has been measured as faster than the speed of light, and some argue that it's instantaneous. Researchers have been able to cause Electrons to "tunnel" for over a hundred feet.

This physics example is particularly appropriate when considering Lightning Bolt, since it's a stream of free running charged subatomic particles. (Electrons) ).

And, by the way, it's *always* a bad idea to try and mix physics and magic in the same argument. And that includes the example I just gave.

Heh. You beat me to it.