D&D 5E Mage Hand and the No Good, Low Down, Dirty Rotten Arcane Trickster

[Mouseferatu]

Whoa, hey now. Nobody said you were threadcrapping. It's a perfectly valid line of discussion; just not one I happen to agree with. But I'm not the boss of the thread, either.

We're all just talking, Doc.

 

[Joe Liker]

I haven't voted yet!

It's way too harsh, and completely uncalled for. If I hadn't bothered to read the thread, I would repeat everything [MENTION=1288]Mouseferatu[/MENTION] already said.

There is nothing in the current edition's rules to indicate that disadvantage is intended or warranted. If you need additional fluff to make you feel better about allowing the check to proceed normally, allow me:

Mage Hand Legerdemain imbues the arcane trickster's mage hand spell with a minor spirit of trickery that is exactly as skilled as the caster at sleight of hand and other roguish tasks. If the caster directs the hand to perform such a task, it is capable of doing so with the same chance of success as the caster would have with his own mundane hands.

 

[doctorhook]

Whoa, hey now. Nobody said you were threadcrapping. It's a perfectly valid line of discussion; just not one I happen to agree with. But I'm not the boss of the thread, either.

We're all just talking, Doc.

Haha Well, I said I was threadcrapping. 'Cuz I kind of am. Poor Joe didn't even have a chance to jump off before I started steering this bus toward the border!

 

[Siege_Engine]

I get that this may be a dead thread, but as someone playing an Arcane Trickster, I've used that cantrip once in battle, and twice in RP. It's taken to earning a nickname about being 'The Bomb Squad'. You're asking everyone here their opinions, and I'm hoping you've talked to your thief about their plans for the Mage Hand.

I'm also curious about how the sessions are going currently. Did you end up keeping it nerfed? How has your rogue been going with it either way? Do they use it too often?

 

[TreChriron]

It is assumed that the rogue has all the tactile capability necessary to do the tasks through use of the mage hand. It is a special use of the cantrip that only an Arcane Trickster has mastered.

Agreed. This doesn't require disadvantage to be balanced.

Thanks for all the input gang! I'm not entirely convinced (I still think the ability to perform the checks at distance is powerful enough), but I do appreciate all the insight. I shall mull it over some more...

First, encourage the characters to be awesome! Also, be a fan of the characters!

Second, add challenge to the adventure that supports the characters awesome abilities! Disarming a trap at range is awesome, but is that really eliminating all dangers? What about a time limit? What about opening a lock while the party is engaged with monsters?

You've mentally painted yourself into a corner. Here's the common process; 1) The player wants to do something with their character that seems unorthodox 2) the DM immediately hears alarm bells, thinks hard on the request, and looks everything up 3) the DM convinces themselves that this is an exploit. How could it not be? The player asked for it... 4) after finding out the RAW allows the action the DM must stand firmer, as the paint on the floor all around them is still wet!

Instead of painting yourself into a corner, why not paint the class ability into a mural? Figure out ways to creatively challenge each character in the adventure without nerfing their abilities. Maybe they find themselves in the middle of a room 60' x 60' with four doors. The door they came in by slams shut. The Rogue assesses the situation and recalls one of their fellow guild members discussing the Kobe Ashi Maroon Death Trap of Confusion. If one trap is disarmed, another triggers opposite it! Now they have to determine what trap to trigger, what shenanigans they will rearrange everyone in the room and then stress out about the inevitable consequences.

I'm sure you can come up with more. Painting floors sucks. Paint murals instead! It's more fun for you and the players.

Just my two cents...

 

[Syntallah]

That character has since lost hold of his mortal form and moved on to a more... spiritual type..? Yeah, spiritual.

Just to be clear, I had no problem whatsoever with the Mage Hand as a class feature. He used it quite often, without restriction. I merely had strong reservations about one of its elements, that is: the ability to disarm any trap from 30 feet away. I never did impose any Disadvantage on his checks. I also didn't bother adding any traps anywhere as they were pointless (if they didn't have range), or a gotcha! move (if they did have ranged effects).

 

[The Grassy Gnoll]

In fairness, lock picks are two handed...http://m.wikihow.com/Pick-a-Lock
So you'd need two hands to pick a lock normally. Mage hand let's you (a) use one and (b) keep a safe distance... Disadvantage seems ok to me.

 

[Umbran]

In fairness, lock picks are two handed...http://m.wikihow.com/Pick-a-Lock
So you'd need two hands to pick a lock normally. Mage hand let's you (a) use one and (b) keep a safe distance... Disadvantage seems ok to me.

And one would imagine that using tools to disarm traps would also frequently be a two-handed operation. Now, *setting off* traps at a distance is a different matter. Mage Hand is cheaper than hiring a new henchman for that

 

[Eric V]

I can see how a particular build of AT can be DM_annoying.

I am playing one currently (based on Lisbeth Salander, expertise in perception, investigation, tools; Wis and Int based) and I am ruining a certain kind of playstyle. High Perception and Investigation lets me catch most things, then I deal with them from 30 feet away.

It's exactly the kind of toon I wanted to play, and there is plenty of opportunity cost, but it makes traps a non-starter.

 

[Siege_Engine]

Just to be clear, I had no problem whatsoever with the Mage Hand as a class feature. He used it quite often, without restriction. I merely had strong reservations about one of its elements, that is: the ability to disarm any trap from 30 feet away. I never did impose any Disadvantage on his checks. I also didn't bother adding any traps anywhere as they were pointless (if they didn't have range), or a gotcha! move (if they did have ranged effects).

That is what the Class Feature Mage Hand Legerdemain is though - the chance to use it from distance to not became sidewalk paste and bits. Your reservations are about the very specific thing that makes it awesome for someone with low (or, depending on luck, *VERY* low) hp to be able to still try to be awesome and not get smuckered. I'd say, instead of just not adding traps, encourage the use in awesome ways. Explore it more. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you didn't impose Disadvantage on it, but really, it's not about whether you should or shouldn't have - it's about letting your AT use it to it's best ability, but not treating it like a crutch. And that comes down to trusting your players.