D&D 5E Ok all, I just cannot wrap my head around how combat works. Please Help.

[painted_klown]

The 5e Starter Set specifically removes the character creation process, and instead includes pregens, to streamline learning. There was, of course, a lot of debate about whether this was the right thing to do, but since character creation rules are available free via the Basic Rules pdf, there wasn't that much to really argue about.

Yeah, after seeing all thee (physical book, free PDF, starter set) I can see why they did what they did. It makes sense to not repeat the same info over and over again.

I only wish that WOTC would have dived into the details of everything for new players (in the physical copy of the PHB anyway). None-the-less, I don't want this thread to come off like I am here to bash on WOTC, as I am not. I think that 5E will end up being a great system for our group and look forward to playing more and more each day. A couple of the players are also getting super excited as well. Texting back and forth with me to discuss the game, some of the options, actually playing, etc.

I predict many good times ahead with 5E.

That's fairly accurate, but for me, the PHB really does have increased value due to the extra classes, races, feats, and multiclassing rules. But if that stuff and a well produced physical copy isn't important, there's no question that the Basic Rules pdf is a spectacular value.

I agree with all of this. If I were to lose my book in a fire/theft/etc, I would be buying a new copy ASAP!

 

[Hollow Man]

I only wish that WOTC would have dived into the details of everything for new players (in the physical copy of the PHB anyway).

I don't have a problem with them not including character creation rules in the Starter Set, but I do think they should've spent more time explaining how to play the game for beginners. If one has no clue how to play D&D, it simply isn't good enough. Even AD&D 1e's three core books, which are notorious for being confusing, have some really great examples that help one to understand how a game generally plays out.

I know WotC has said they planned to have online supplemental material to help one learn how to play (specifically videos, if I'm remembering correctly), but that really hasn't panned out. Fortunately, the community has plenty of material available, so an enterprising person can easily get the help needed.

-HM

 

[pukunui]

I know WotC has said they planned to have online supplemental material to help one learn how to play (specifically videos, if I'm remembering correctly), but that really hasn't panned out. Fortunately, the community has plenty of material available, so an enterprising person can easily get the help needed.-HM

I think those livestream Lost Mine games with Greg Bilsland as DM were meant to be the "how to play" videos.

 

[Hollow Man]

I think those livestream Lost Mine games with Greg Bilsland as DM were meant to be the "how to play" videos.

If so, I really question the value of having a beginner watch hour+ long videos. It simply isn't a good way to learn.

-HM

 

[Grainger]

Character creation is by far the most complex part of the game, and it absolutely made sense to omit this. Amazon.co.uk is full of people saying "wahh, it isn't a starter set, because you can't create characters!", but really they're missing the point: to get started you're best off playing with pre-gens and then do character creation when you know what those choices mean. These complaints seem to be coming from experienced role-players who haven't considered that the box set is for everyone, including newcomers to RPGs.

All the effort is front-loaded in 5e - it takes a lot of time to create a character (until you're au-fair with the system); once these details are on your character sheet the game is really easy to play, but you do need to do all the planning and calculations first. This is not OD&D or the old Basic set, where you essentially just roll six stats and go.

For total newcomers (or people coming back after 30 years' absence), having character creation before play would only guarantee that most of them wouldn't even get to the part where they actually play the game, and then they're lost to the system, and probably to future editions, if not roleplaying altogether. Having an adventure that hand-holds new DMs and players through the game was the right way to go (whether the included adventure booklet does a good job of this is a different matter).

Also, including character creation rules would hugely bump the page count, making the (already quite large) rulebook look even more intimidating.

 

[wedgeski]

I agree that an example of play, with call-outs to where the DM and players are getting their information, would have been a good addition, but then I like that sort of thing. D&D is a complex table-top game, by any standard.

BUT, what would have been even better, in this day and age, would have been a well-prepared video presentation showing the D&D designers at play, around the table, fully edited and annotated with graphics to show which bits of the rules were being used. Even just one combat and one RP encounter would have been enough. The sessions currently available online do a good job of demonstrating what a role-playing game is, but a poor job of explaining how the rules work.

Still, there are tons of videos out there, and as someone said, your average yoof today will know exactly what to do to find them. The only question is, will he/she be bothered. Let's hope so.

 

[Zak S]

For total newcomers (or people coming back after 30 years' absence), having character creation before play would only guarantee that most of them wouldn't even get to the part where they actually play the game, and then they're lost to the system, and probably to future editions, i

A bold and unusual conclusion.

 

[Grainger]

A bold and unusual conclusion.

Character creation is by far the most complicated part of the game. If the set is to show how streamlined actual play is, then it makes sense to jump players straight in, instead of making them take ages fiddling with stats; any character creation choices are also hard if you don't know what they mean during play. I realise that players of other RPGs - e.g. Pathfinder - might want to try the character creation out in 5e, but for them, they can look at the free online materials. The starter set is in bookshops - it's meant to appeal to non-gamers and lapsed gamers (who might not have played since 1e, and have no real memory of how to play).

Many board games have a "beginner's mode", with reduced play time and rule-set; it makes sense for a D&D starter set to do this (D&D is much more complicated than most board games, at least in terms of page counts). The most sensible way to do this in 5e is to skip character creation, and start playing.

I suppose there could be a half-way solution; give the players a character template, and get them to make a few choices (with explanations of what these mean), but for up to four PCs, that would add a lot of page count to the set, and I presume one of the goals was to keep the page count down (for cost reasons, but also to avoid intimidating newcomers). You need pretty much everything else - rules for combat, example of play, a list of spells - what else can you cut?

 

[Staffan]

BUT, what would have been even better, in this day and age, would have been a well-prepared video presentation showing the D&D designers at play, around the table, fully edited and annotated with graphics to show which bits of the rules were being used.

If they do this, they should check in with whomever is doing the editing for Tabletop. They're pretty good at graphics explaining game systems.

 

[wedgeski]

If they do this, they should check in with whomever is doing the editing for Tabletop. They're pretty good at graphics explaining game systems.

Exactly my thoughts as well. This season of TableTop, especially, has been really good in that regard (although they do play some bloody strange games).

As it happens, the crowd-funding which got TableTop S3 off the ground also stretch-goaled into an RPG series. Now, Wheaton hasn't announced which system it'll be using, but if it is 5E, then this could be exactly what we're looking for.