D&D 5E Ok all, I just cannot wrap my head around how combat works. Please Help.

[painted_klown]

Please help me here. I am about to DM a game and just cannot seem to wrap my head around how combat works. I have read the PHB rules many, many times, but cannot get it to sink in my head as an understandable concept.

I think I have partially figured it out, but am still up in the air about other things. I am mainly confused about the monster's attacks on the PCs.

1. Roll for initiative. This means everyone rolls a d20 + DEX Modifier. Then you order everyone from highest to lowest. Each monster group (of identical monsters) gets their own check.

2. Movement by speed. Each square = 5 ft. (or)

3. Attack. For attacking, the PC rolls a d20 + STR or DEX modifier (dependent on weapon type {melee or ranged}) + the appropriate proficiency modifier for the PCs level if the PC is proficient with the weapon being used. For example, a level 1 PC has a proficiency bonus of +2, so that will add to the total.

If that rolled total adds up to be equal to or greater than the monsters AC, then you hit and roll for damage.

Rolling for damage is done with the appropriate die for the weapon being used (d6, d8, etc), then you add the weapons ATK bonus to give you the total amount of damage the monster takes. If that damage is equal to or greater than the monsters remaining hit points, then the monster dies.

If not, then the monster gets to attack the PCs once it's their turn in the initiative order.

This is where I get REALLY lost. When the monster makes his attack roll, how do you figure out if he hits the PC?

I think it's a d20 + their STR modifier or DEX modifier (depending on type of attack)? Not sure on this...is it the +X "to hit" number?

To make this easy, I will use a Goblin. (page 166 in the MM, or page 30 in the free PDF)

Goblin
Small humanoid (goblinoid), neutral evil
Armor Class 15 (leather armor, shield)
Hit Points 7 (2d6)
Speed 30 ft.
STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA
8 (−1) 14 (+2) 10 (+0) 10 (+0) 8 (−1) 8 (−1)
Skills Stealth +6
Senses darkvision 60 ft., passive Perception 9
Languages Common, Goblin
Challenge 1/4 (50 XP)
Nimble Escape. The goblin can take the Disengage or Hide
action as a bonus action on each of its turns.
Actions
Scimitar. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one
target. Hit: 5 (1d6 + 2) slashing damage.
Shortbow. Ranged Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, range 80/320 ft.,
one target. Hit: 5 (1d6 + 2) piercing damage.
Goblins are small, black-hearted humanoids that lair
in despoiled dungeons and other dismal settings.
Individually weak, they gather in large numbers to
torment other creatures.

So, if a goblin was attacking one of my PCs using his Scimitar, would that be a d20 + -1?

What does the "to hit" number represent? ie "Scimitar. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit" or "Shortbow. Ranged Weapon Attack: +4 to hit" for our goblin buddy.


I am confused, because if the Goblin were to follow the same rules as the PCs, then shouldn't his attack roll be d20 + his STR modifier (-1) in this case?

In skimming through the Monster Manual (Just got it today along with the PHB!!! ) I see some CRAZY HIGH "to hit" numbers for some monsters. For example Balor (page 55) has a "+14 to hit" listed for his two melee attacks. Shouldn't it be 1d20 + STR modifier (+8) in this case?

If his attack roll is 1d20+14, then he is ridiculously tough, especially considering his AC of 19. That kinda means he essentially never misses, and is very difficult to actually hit. Unless, of course, I am mixed up here.

Can anyone please explain "Combat for dummies"?

Yes, I asked this question in my "running questions" thread, but still am not fully grasping it. I thought if I make a dedicated thread, then more people would see it, and hopefully chime in.

My apologies for being so dense, but I have to get this figured out in preparation for next weekend.



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[Mouseferatu]

The "to hit" number is, indeed, what you roll for the attack. Don't worry about Str, Dex, whatever. It's already factored in.

Monsters get a proficiency bonus based on Hit Dice, just as PCs do for level. That's where some of the modifier comes from.

But also, monsters don't always 100% follow the same rules the PCs do. Some monsters have slightly higher or lower attack bonuses than just Proficiency + Str simply because that particular monster happens to be more (or less) accurate.

 

[SirAntoine]

The values in the Monster Manual should give you the net totals after all modifiers. The -1 strength penalty applies for the goblin, but I am not sure if they calculated that into the +4 they list. To use the +4, you would add four to the roll on a d20. The damages are first the amount if you don't want to roll, or 1d6+2 total, which again probably takes into account the strength penalty. The Balor has some souped-up proficiency bonus to reach +14, maybe from feats or magic items which carry bonuses to hit sometimes.

Someone else with more information will post, so don't worry. It takes some getting used to for anyone.

 

[Mouseferatu]

The goblin, for instance, is using as scimitar, which is a finesse (Dex) weapon. It has a +2 Dex modifier and a +2 to proficiency bonus. That's where the +4 comes from.

 

[billd91]

You're not far from understanding and I'll try to set you right.

For the goblin, when it says +4 to hit, that's the modifier you add to the d20 to see if they hit the PC's AC. You can trust it to mean what it's saying - he really is +4 to hit with that scimitar just as the balor really is +14.

So where does that modifier come from? Same place as it does for a PC - stat mod appropriate to the weapon and type of attack and the monster's proficiency bonus. That's one thing you're missing. That goblin gets the same +2 to hit as a proficiency bonus as the 1st level PCs do as long as he's proficient with his weapons. And monsters are pretty much assumed to be proficient with any weapon in their stat block. The +4 comes from the +2 proficiency bonus and +2 for the goblin's dexterity. Scimitars are finesse weapons and creatures wielding them can use their dexterity to modify their attacks rather than their strength (that's why it's a +2 instead of a -1 from the 8 strength).

And, yes, balors won't miss often. Their AC of 19 will get easier to hit for PCs because they will get to raise their stats as they level (possibly getting higher stat bonuses), they'll pick up a magic weapon (generally ranging +1 to +3), and their proficiency bonus will rise as they gain experience. Already a pretty typical 1st level character can be +5 to hit or so with their primary weapons. Another +6 or +7 will be pretty easy to pick up by the time they're ready to tangle with balors.

 

[billd91]

Rolling for damage is done with the appropriate die for the weapon being used (d6, d8, etc), then you add the weapons ATK bonus to give you the total amount of damage the monster takes. If that damage is equal to or greater than the monsters remaining hit points, then the monster dies.

I thought I had better head this off at the pass.
When you say you add the weapon's ATK bonus to determine the damage a weapon does, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that. What you add is the character's stat bonus, not their attack bonus (which is what I assume you mean by ATK). The attack bonus is usually a synonym for the To Hit bonus and includes the proficiency bonus. The proficiency bonus does not typically get added to weapon damage. You just add stat bonuses and occasional other bonuses laid out in weapon properties (for magic weapons) or special abilities PCs get from their classes.

In the goblin example, the scimitar does 1d6+2 damage. That's 1d6 from the scimitar's stats on the equipment tables in the Player's Handbook and +2 from the goblin's dexterity modifier (remember, the scimitar is a finesse weapon and the wielder can use dex modifiers instead of str). The +4 to hit is usually considered the attack modifier, sometimes abbreviated as ATK modifier. Notice, the goblin does not get +4 damage.

 

[painted_klown]

Awesome!

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! to everyone for clearing that up for me. Will make reading the Monster Manual even more fun, now that I know what the #'s mean.

Not to derail my own thread, but I absolutely fell in love with the MM upon cracking it open and skimming through it today. I always kind of figured it would be my least favorite of the 3 core books, but between it and the PHB (don't have the DMG yet), I have to admit that I like the MM a bit more. Cool art, a seemingly endless list of baddies, and even inspiration/ideas on how to use them in your campaigns. I didn't think it would be such fun to look at & read. To be honest, I thought it would be more like a textbook/reference guide, than the "book of awesomeness" that it ended up being. All IMO, of course.

 

[the Jester]

You've got a lot of it right, and I'll just make a few additions or corrections to the discussion.

2. Movement by speed. Each square = 5 ft. (or)

3. Attack.

Actually, you can move your speed AND take an action (such as attack). You can even break your movement up around your attacks, so if you have a speed of 30' and the Extra Attack feature for being a 5th level paladin, you can move 10', attack, move 5', make your second attack, then finish your movement with that last 15'. Just beware opportunity attacks- if you leave a creature's threatened area, it gets to use its reaction to make an attack against you.

I

Rolling for damage is done with the appropriate die for the weapon being used (d6, d8, etc), then you add the weapons ATK bonus to give you the total amount of damage the monster takes.

Not quite. Your proficiency bonus doesn't apply to damage; neither do special things, like bless, that give you a bonus to attack. Just (generally) your Str or Dex modifier, plus any special, specific bonuses to damage.

This is where I get REALLY lost. When the monster makes his attack roll, how do you figure out if he hits the PC?

The attack bonus listed in the monster's description includes all the appropriate modifiers.

I am confused, because if the Goblin were to follow the same rules as the PCs, then shouldn't his attack roll be d20 + his STR modifier (-1) in this case?

No. Scimitars are finesse weapons, so it uses its Dex instead.

In skimming through the Monster Manual (Just got it today along with the PHB!!! ) I see some CRAZY HIGH "to hit" numbers for some monsters. For example Balor (page 55) has a "+14 to hit" listed for his two melee attacks. Shouldn't it be 1d20 + STR modifier (+8) in this case?

You forgot its proficiency bonus (set by CR, not HD)- +6 in this case. There's the +14 right there!

If his attack roll is 1d20+14, then he is ridiculously tough, especially considering his AC of 19. That kinda means he essentially never misses, and is very difficult to actually hit. Unless, of course, I am mixed up here.

That's correct. The balor is a bad-ass, tough, high-level monster, and always has been.

Monsters get a proficiency bonus based on Hit Dice, just as PCs do for level. That's where some of the modifier comes from.

As I said, this is actually based on CR, not HD.

But also, monsters don't always 100% follow the same rules the PCs do.

Yes- this is key. Don't expect monsters and npcs to follow pc rules; for example, look at the npc mage in the MM. It uses d8s for HD like a monster, not d6s like a pc wizard.

Hope this helps!

 

[painted_klown]

I thought I had better head this off at the pass.
When you say you add the weapon's ATK bonus to determine the damage a weapon does, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that. What you add is the character's stat bonus, not their attack bonus (which is what I assume you mean by ATK). The attack bonus is usually a synonym for the To Hit bonus and includes the proficiency bonus. The proficiency bonus does not typically get added to weapon damage. You just add stat bonuses and occasional other bonuses laid out in weapon properties (for magic weapons) or special abilities PCs get from their classes.

In the goblin example, the scimitar does 1d6+2 damage. That's 1d6 from the scimitar's stats on the equipment tables in the Player's Handbook and +2 from the goblin's dexterity modifier (remember, the scimitar is a finesse weapon and the wielder can use dex modifiers instead of str). The +4 to hit is usually considered the attack modifier, sometimes abbreviated as ATK modifier. Notice, the goblin does not get +4 damage.

Thank you for bringing this up. Here is what I am meaning by my post.

Using the Fighter with the Noble background out of the Starter Set trying to attack a Goblin with his Greataxe (assuming the Fighter has the higher initiative):

Fighter would roll his attack roll. A d20 + his STR modifier (+3 in this case) and add another +2 to that number as he is proficient with his Greataxe.

Lets pretend he rolls a an 11. So the attack roll would be 11+3+2=16. Since 16 is greater than the Goblins AC of 15, he scores a hit and gets to roll for damage.

The Fighter then rolls 1d12 plus his STR modifier of +3 slashing damage, plus an additional +5

Oh boy, when trying to type this out, I realized I am confused on this as well.

 

[billd91]

Fighter would roll his attack roll. A d20 + his STR modifier (+3 in this case) and add another +2 to that number as he is proficient with his Greataxe.

Yep

Lets pretend he rolls a an 11. So the attack roll would be 11+3+2=16. Since 16 is greater than the Goblins AC of 15, he scores a hit and gets to roll for damage.

Yep

The Fighter then rolls 1d12 plus his STR modifier of +3 slashing damage, plus an additional +5

Just the +3. NOT the additional +5. Adding that additional +5 would add his strength bonus a second time as well as his proficiency modifier. He should just get the +3 - notice that the character sheet in the starter set says just that.

Oh boy, when trying to type this out, I realized I am confused on this as well.

It used to be worse with earlier editions. At one point, they gave you a table matrix to determine if a roll hit or not (I had trouble figuring out the first time I read it whether the roll needed to be higher or lower than the target number). The mechanics have gotten easier over the years, but they can still be a challenge to absorb when you're new to the whole game.