D&D 5E Why is Hoard of the Dragon Queen such a bad adventure?

[Doc_Klueless]

Good APs are...

Everytime you type that I just replace it with "APs that I like are..." Because, while you're hovering close to what I like also, I'm unconvinced that those are the qualities of a Good AP.

A good AP is one that the DM enjoys running and the players enjoy playing. But with such an eclectic mix of DM and Player styles, there's no way to have a formula for a Good AP, so to speak.

 

[Prism]

This AP is proof they can't write. I bet the only reason most people bought it was becauze it was the first AP of the new edition.

I'm sure you are correct that the main reason people bought this was that it was the first published adventure (beyond the starter set). I know had this been further down the line we probably wouldn't have bothered since we don't really do adventure paths. However, as it happens its a pretty good start for 5th edition and is giving us the chance to try out the system while following an interesting story. But proof that Kobold Press and Wotc can't write? Hardly. What else have you played by them to come to this conclusion? As an example Courts of the Shadow Fey is a fantastic adventure written by the same author as Hoard. Besides the fact you haven't even played, run or even own HotDQ so I'm not sure why you have such a strong opinion.

 

[Sailor Moon]

I'm sure you are correct that the main reason people bought this was that it was the first published adventure (beyond the starter set). I know had this been further down the line we probably wouldn't have bothered since we don't really do adventure paths. However, as it happens its a pretty good start for 5th edition and is giving us the chance to try out the system while following an interesting story. But proof that Kobold Press and Wotc can't write? Hardly. What else have you played by them to come to this conclusion? As an example Courts of the Shadow Fey is a fantastic adventure written by the same author as Hoard. Besides the fact you haven't even played, run or even own HotDQ so I'm not sure why you have such a strong opinion.

I didn't say anything about Kobold Press. The main plot and story came from Wizards of the Coast.

You obviously didn't read my earlier post because I do own HOTDQ and Rise of Tiamat. WoTC have a long standing history of not being able to write good adventure modules. Good game design and good story writing do not come hand in hand I'm afraid. I have been playing and running modules for nearly 30 years now, all the while keeping up with the current events through those years till now so I do have a bit of knowledge about what I speak of. You will always get someone who likes something no matter how bad it actually is and Keep on the Shadowfell is a testament to that.

So I will repeat what I said. WoTc are not good when it comes to their writing skills.

 

[Kaychsea]

So I will repeat what I said. WoTc are not good when it comes to their writing skills.

While I believe that this is more a judgement based on personal taste, to say that based on Hoard is similar to blaming Tolkien for all the fight scenes in Battle of the 5 Armies.

 

[Sailor Moon]

While I believe that this is more a judgement based on personal taste, to say that based on Hoard is similar to blaming Tolkien for all the fight scenes in Battle of the 5 Armies.

Ehhhhh? Not a good comparison there.

 

[Kaychsea]

Ehhhhh? Not a good comparison there.

Really? If KP aren't responsible for story and plot they are responsible for presentation and detailed scene development. If what bugs you is the overall story arc then WotC are your fall guys, if the implementation is what gets you then it's KP.

For me I think that a lot of the complaining about railroading comes from the way it is being run for or by them. It's not a sandbox by any stretch of the imagination and it is an AP, there is an element of dot joining going on from chapter to chapter. But I've run at least the opening chapter for three groups and only one didn't like it. All three have dealt with it very differently and the group who didn't want to take it further went at it like a bull at a gate and didn't make it to the keep.

To some extent it is a teaching exercise about what your journeymen starting characters can and can't do, finding boundaries and getting beaten up by kobolds. But that is what you are until 5th, worried.

 

[KarinsDad]

But I've run at least the opening chapter for three groups and only one didn't like it.

I find your choice of words interesting. Only one group did not like it. Having run a lot of modules in the past, I have had very few that people did not enjoy (I cannot remember an actual example, but I'm sure there was one here or there). Having a 33% dislike rate sounds really high to me.

 

[delericho]

I'm a little disappointed that I need to put as much effort as I have been into getting each session just right but there is plenty of good stuff to build upon.

I'm getting that feeling as well. Funnily enough, it's exactly the same reaction I had to the last Wolfgang Baur adventure I read - "Expedition to the Demonweb Pits". That adventure, like this one, had some very serious flaws, but there was the core of a good campaign in there somewhere, provided the DM was willing to do a lot of work to dig it out.

I never actually bothered to do that digging for "Expedition...", and I doubt I will here, either.

WoTc hasn't written a good adventure in god knows how long.

Since "Lost Mine of Phandelver".

 

[pukunui]

Since "Lost Mine of Phandelver".

"Madness at Gardmore Abbey" is up there too.

 

[Kaychsea]

I find your choice of words interesting. Only one group did not like it.

This group started by attacking everything they found. Head to head and with no thought. After the fourth encounter and second group of kobolds they retreated (carrying two of the five) out of the village found a vantage point and watched the cultists systematically loot and murder. They had two rogues and neither actually tried to hide let alone scout. In retrospect it was a mercy that they didn't try to make it to the keep. They might have tried to nick it.

In the entire, excruciating three hours of it (the first encounter, 2 cultists and 4 kobolds, took an hour!) I think I was asked what they could see twice, and both times it was because they wanted to know if they could see the dragon from the hill. Two of them had chosen one of their bonds to be having family in Greenest.

Having actually read the rules, one of them doesn't want to play because you can't get a sword higher than +3 (this is a 45 year old lawyer) and another is upset because one of the fighters wants to be a Eldritch Knight ( a thirty something mother of three who wants her wizard to be special).

Given all of that I really don't think the adventure was the problem.

Also, given the sample size, it could only be 0%, 33%, 67% or 100%. Not sure of your point there.