D&D 5E RAKSASHA (Limited Magic Immunity) X Empyrean (Bolt)

[jrowland]

Generally when I pay a professional to do work for me I expect to not have to correct their mistakes. If I have to, I hired the wrong one.

You paid WotC and Hasbro to make 5E! Cool!

 

[Ketser]

Well, Empyrean is a semi-devine being, basically a young/beginning demigod who uses his divine powers to create a bolt of energy. I would say its a divine innate ability that most certainly will affect an fiendish creature. Damn even if it would be a spell, i would rule that since the caster is a semi-divine being that Rakshasas immunity won't apply or is lessened to an advantage to save, since the rule is meant for mortal spellcasters not would-be demigods.

 

[rjfTrebor]

it's obviously a spell and it obviously ins't high enough level to beat the rakshasa's spell immunity. i don't see where the confusion could have come from.

 

[the Jester]

it's obviously a spell and it obviously ins't high enough level to beat the rakshasa's spell immunity. i don't see where the confusion could have come from.

And I say it's obviously not a spell.

How do you figure? I've explained my reasoning above.

 

[rjfTrebor]

the rakshasa is immune to magic unless it's of a very specific type (level 6 spells). the Empyrean's bolt is obviously a magic effect and has no good reason to be excluded from the immunity aside from people trying to read the rules like a RAWyer

 

[Thyrwyn]

Actually, if you were to parse words, the Rakshasa's ability limits its immunity to a very specific range of spells, those that are sixth level or lower. The Empyrean's Bolt attack is a) not listed under its spellcasting ability (and is therefore not a 'spell'), b) is not given a level, so is therefore, by definition, not sixth level or lower, and c) is not listed as a spell in the 5e PHB, the only collection of spells that we have, at the moment.

 

[rjfTrebor]

Actually, if you were to parse words, the Rakshasa's ability limits its immunity to a very specific range of spells, those that are sixth level or lower. The Empyrean's Bolt attack is a) not listed under its spellcasting ability (and is therefore not a 'spell'), b) is not given a level, so is therefore, by definition, not sixth level or lower, and c) is not listed as a spell in the 5e PHB, the only collection of spells that we have, at the moment.

the game is meant to help model the fantasy world. it doesn't work well the other way around. the obvious intent for the rakshasa is that it's affected by only the most powerful magic.

 

[Thyrwyn]

Obvious. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Could you please explain the evidence that gave you insight into the "intent" of the Rakshasa's immunity? Also, as you stated, the Bolt is a magical effect - and magical effects are addressed in the Rakshasa's limited magic immunity feature: the Rakshasa gets advantage on saving throws against them.

Not that that helps much against the magical bolt from a CR 23 extra planar child of a god. But I guess you don't consider that to be among the "most powerful magic". Even though the CR of the Rakshasa is only just over half of that...

 

[Schmoe]

Spells are very clearly defined. The bolt is not defined as a spell. I say that the BOLT Empyrean would hit Rakshasa.

 

[the Jester]

the game is meant to help model the fantasy world. it doesn't work well the other way around.

I'm not sure what this even means.

the obvious intent for the rakshasa is that it's affected by only the most powerful magic.

I don't think that is either obvious or the intent. I think it's obvious that the intent is that the rakshasa's limited magic immunity does exactly what it says- immunizes it against certain spells and gives advantage on saving throws against other magic effects. The empyrean's Bolt is neither a spell nor does it allow a save; ergo, the obvious intent (IMHO) is that the bolt can do its work on the rakshasa just fine.