I like the OP's initial eight roles much better. He narrows them down to three, and makes some good points.
D&D 5E What are the Roles now?
- Thread starter Unwise
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FormerlyHemlock
Hero
"Strong guy" is defined by supernatural strength and sometimes durability. "Defender" is defined here as "a character with the defender role primarily focuses enemy fire by making it difficult for enemies to move past, and punishing enemies who attack other party members." The two concepts could conceptually overlap, but although my knowledge of superhero comics is limited, it seems clear that the Hulk for one is not a Defender at all. He never (AFAIK) intercepts attackers headed for other characters; he just goes and smashes things. (Not always in combat--part of the "strong guy" role includes things like lifting fallen telephone poles off cars and smashing holes in walls. It's not purely a combat role.) If anything he sounds more like a Striker, since "Strikers specialize in dealing high amounts of damage to a single target at a time," except that also misses 80% of the Hulk concept, which is everything related to the manner in which he does that damage: by smashing people's faces in with raw strength.
The concepts "strong guy" and "striker" overlap a bit in the combat domain but they are quite distinct nonetheless. You must see this.
GMforPowergamers
Legend
yup... just remember it's OK that fighters are strikers now, because the system took a lot of defender away... I will say you are supposed to be able to be a leader If you take battle master they have a temp hp maneuver, and commander strike, and something like wolf pact tactics, and you can at level 4 take the inspiration feat... Ari Marmell said it works well, I have yet to see it in play (And am skeptical to say the least) me and my friends think a 4th level college of war bard with 4 levels of battle master fighter with the inspiration feat and the one to give extra superiority dice may be able to be like a 3rd-5th level warlord from 4e most of the time though...
All of which invalidates these roles.
FormerlyHemlock
Hero
I like that you are trying to bring this back on topic.
I think the OP may have missed a few, including:Summoner: the guy who can generate disposable minions when needed (e.g. fighting undead with level drain).
Diviner: the guy who can uncover arcane knowledge via scrying and Speak With Dead. Invaluable when solving murders.
Hacker: the guy who can penetrate/shut down/take control of enemy defensive systems. Not a stereotypical D&D activity but this is basically what Abjurors with Counterspell/Dispel Magic are doing, and someone who sneaks into the enemy stronghold to turn key personnel (via persuasion/bribes/threats or Mass Suggestion) is engaged in this same activity.
Also, I think "sneaky guy" and "can pick locks and disarm traps" are distinct roles, although there are obvious syngergies between them.
Nergal Pendragon
First Post
Because almost none of them actually play the defender role. Superman is the sole one who typically plays it.
Thing? Colossus? Hulk? These are not defensive characters.
Within Fantastic Four, the Thing has very little to do with presenting an impassible barrier; that's the role Mr. Fantastic plays (hint: the roles assigned to the group earlier in this thread are almost entirely wrong by the way 4E defines the roles and how the characters actually act).
Hulk? He doesn't really understand the concept of being defensive when he's mean and green; he's a pure attacker. He doesn't really try to defend others; usually, if he does do it, it's an accidental side-effect.
Colossus is pretty similar to Thing in his comics as far as tactics.
FormerlyHemlock
Hero
Well, it sure invalidates the "strong guy = defender" equivalency. I don't know what you mean by "invalidates these roles." Maybe you mean "invalidates the application of these roles to the superhero domain."
It applies to defender and striker.
The name "defender" is a poor description of the role.
A defender's job is to be the number one threat. In the old days, this was by being the scary armored guy with the big sword or axe all up in people's face. Defending an area was an aspect of this as the easiest way to be the threat when the foes can't get to anyone else.
The difference between a defender and a striker is the defender wants you to target them whereas the striker actively attempts not to be targeted.
A defender's job is to be the number one threat. In the old days, this was by being the scary armored guy with the big sword or axe all up in people's face. Defending an area was an aspect of this as the easiest way to be the threat when the foes can't get to anyone else.
The difference between a defender and a striker is the defender wants you to target them whereas the striker actively attempts not to be targeted.
Nergal Pendragon
First Post
And, if they're big enough, controller.
