D&D 5E What are the Roles now?

EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
157 pages in to this, is there anything new to add? if not let me sum up...

No, there isn't, and this thread really should've been closed like, three or four times before now. I'm honestly surprised it hasn't been--it gets necro'd every few months for no reason other than someone to come along and :):):):) on peoples' preferences all over again.
 

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teitan

Legend
Yea I miss when he game didn't default to a fightr a mage a cleric and a thief... Oh wait it was never and it was no more a straight jacket then or now

Really? Lol uh no. There wasn't a default party assumption in OD&D and 1e. Groups were larger and/or hirelings were part of the game. There was plenty of advice in various places on how to run, say, an all thief, wizard, fighter or cleric campaign. The game was much more a resource management game. 2e began the shift towards the "balanced" party of the classic four. Heck, with 3d6 in order, having a "classic, balanced" party was damn near impossible so this balanced party roles was not a default assumption. Even the last person to show up plays the cleric is a relic of 2e era play. Sorry to burst that bubble.
 

teitan

Legend
Actually, this thread was the top post when I commented meaning I didn't necro anything and saw a debate that made me a little nostalgic for the old days. When balance meant, as per the DMG in 1e and 2e that the DM was responsible for making sure everyone had fun and nobody outshined anybody. It was easier to have all fighter groups, and it was possible in fourth to do this as well, barely, and just run with it. Have a ball! 3e, not so much. Hit point and damage escalation made wizards and clerics more and more necessary, especially as players leveled up with fighters being linear in development. When hit dice capped, the linear development of fighters, as an example, wasn't as big as issue. Yeah you're doing 4-16 damage to the dragon but the dragon didn't have a couple hundred hit points. The demon lord didn't have 200+ etc. So a party of 5 fighters that were careful and intelligent in play could subdue that dragon without the other three classes. A wizard was darn useful and so was a cleric or thief but there are reasons there are potions that give non rogues temporary thief skills and fire breathing, scaling health potions and the like.

Thought, to be fair, a party of wizards was just asking for tpk.
 

I probably said it earlier in the threat but I'll say it again: roles are a great way to design a character, but a poor way to design a class. Knowing the party needs "the healer" or "the tank" limits class choices, but the game should be flexible enough to let you decide how you want to fill that role.

The roles are fairly flexible.
4e had four roles because D&D has four iconic classes, but most MMOs only really recognize three roles: damage, defence, and healing. Crowd control is problematic, since CCing isn't needed in every fight. But it's also possible to divide up damage into ranged or melee, or single target or AoE. And there's also high AC tanking and being a high hit points meat shield, which could be different roles.
To say nothing of the out-of-combat roles like diplomancer/face, skill monkey, lore monkey, and athlete.
 

Xxandx

First Post
There are enough ways to create a Tank and/or a Healer. Paladins and Clerics has a lot to offer. Try multiclassing a cleric with a few levels of Fighter/champion for ekstra attacks and crit:19-20.

Currantly I'm playing with a Fighter/BattleMaster. He is Dexterity based, and fights in light Hide Armor, with a shield and a finesse weapon (scimitar).
He has almost as much AC as our Paladin.

Adding the Feat: Shield Master I can knock targets prone as a bonus action with a (acrobatic skill check), granting everyone advantage. That's a good thing when you have a Rogue with Sneak Attacks, a Paladin with ekstra attacks and a great-sword and a Ranger with ekstra attacks and a bow.

I have a plan to multiclass my Fighter/BattleMaster with a few levels of Rogue class. Fighting with finesse weapons grants Sneak Attacks when you have advantage. And when I knock targets prone I get advantage.
Rogues also has a class feature: Expertice: That grants double proficiency in skills. I can use that to improve (acrobatics), making knocking targets prone easyer.

My role in my group is Tank/Controller and it works out nice.
 
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crazypets321

Villager
Here is my party breakdown. We would be pretty good at combat, except that we don't focus fire very well (the times that we do, we are very effective).

Warlock (me). I use hex (I'll come back to this later) and eldritch blast to dish out a solid ~9 DPR. My pseudodragon also works for putting enemies to sleep. My opener is usually a nice shatter (on which I've never rolled lower than 16 damage and enemies usually fail their saves) when most of the enemies are clustered together. I would be mostly a controller with hex (I'll get back to this, as I said) and sometimes suggestion (when there isn't a good shatter situation).

Paladin. The paladin is the low-damage defender you guys talked about. He's not exactly low-damage, except he never hits with anything except opportunity attacks (but when he does hit, it's usually a crit and he can smite for MASSIVE damage). He has high Con, Heavy Armor Master feat, AC 21, Sentinel feat (he's never missed an opportunity attack), Protection Fighting Style, and Compelled duel. He keeps the enemies attacking him and away from the rest of us squishy casters. Now for my hex, I often do Strength, so the paladin can shove enemies out the door and hold it shut if things get tough.

Rogue. The rogue does a lot of sneak attack, but usually misses. He is very helpful outside of combat though, because he always rolls 13 or higher on Stealth checks (+7 modifier, for at least 20). He sneaks in places and scouts it out, usually accompanied by my pseudodragon.

Cleric. This ain't your normal cleric. He is trickery domain and has almost no healing capabilities. Instead, he uses inflict wounds and spiritual weapon for INSANE DPR, while using his channel divinity (illusory duplicate) to keep his enemies from hitting him. This guy is definitely our striker.

Gnome. This guy has a table that he DMs, so he only plays with us occasionally. He is a gnome champion fighter with plate mail (another AC 20 guy) and protection fighting style. He is another nice tank, and he and the paladin just stand in the way and can't get hit, and the enemies can't get to the rest of us. He rarely ever hits, but when he does it's usually a crit. Another defender, definitely.

In 5e, I would say that there definitely are roles, but they are not nearly as essential as in 4e. Also, in 5e roles are based more on build than class. The paladin could have easily taken Oath of Vengeance and dueling style and dished out a ton of damage, and my warlock could just have easily taken fiend pact, armor of agathys, and fiendish vigor and always have a bunch of temporary hit points. The gnome could have taken battle master and pushed people around and disarmed them and stuff. I noticed that our group works very well in combat, with the paladin standing in the way and using compelled duel on any stragglers, while we three just sit 40 feet away and shoot. That's not exactly defender/controller/leader/striker, but it's close enough: defender/striker/controller/rogue who doesn't help much. I've noticed with that balance, we can be very effective in combat, assuming we focus fire (in our last encounter, we had to run away from a few duergar, who after we ran away, the DM told us were at 2, 5, and 7 hit points; if we had taken them out one at a time, we would have won).
 
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In 5e, I would say that there definitely are roles, but they are not nearly as essential as in 4e. Also, in 5e roles are based more on build than class. The paladin could have easily taken Oath of Vengeance and dueling style and dished out a ton of damage, and my warlock could just have easily taken fiend pact, armor of agathys, and fiendish vigor and always have a bunch of temporary hit points. The gnome could have taken battle master and pushed people around and disarmed them and stuff. I noticed that our group works very well in combat, with the paladin standing in the way and using compelled duel on any stragglers, while we three just sit 40 feet away and shoot. That's not exactly defender/controller/leader/striker, but it's close enough: defender/striker/controller/rogue who doesn't help much. I've noticed with that balance, we can be very effective in combat, assuming we focus fire (in our last encounter, we had to run away from a few duergar, who after we ran away, the DM told us were at 2, 5, and 7 hit points; if we had taken them out one at a time, we would have won).

that's very insightful, I agree that the roles that have always been around are as loose as ever now.

Leader is just buff/heal
defender is just high defense good way to grab attention
Striker is just high dpr
and controller is just status effects and AOE

at the end of the say there are multi ways to go about each.
 

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