D&D 5E magic items prices

[KarinsDad]

RARE ITEMS.

Otherwise known as not very likely to be found, and/or perhaps a limited number of them in the world. The concept that is failing to take hold here is that these are MAGICAL items (rare and wonderful). They are not simply workaday "gear" for the common adventurer of level X. Why is a rare work of art worth so much? Oh yeah because its RARE!

If some DM decides that these rare magical items are actually just gear then he or she can price them however. Pricing based on meta-game utility IS saying that this is just gear.

Actually, I'd like to comment on this.

The item might be rare in the campaign world and rightfully so, but there might be some rare items that the PCs eventually find in every single one of my games.

Why?

Because they are fun! I don't give a rats rearend if WotC thinks that an item is rare and shouldn't be bought or any such thing. I care about whether my players are having fun. The PCs and the campaign world does not exist except in the minds of the people at the table, so if there is something cool in the DMG and it brings laughter and fun to the table, by gosh it's showing up. It doesn't matter how rare it is. As DM, I'm there to enhance the enjoyment of everyone and I find that finding magic items, regardless of whether they are found in a store, or in a dungeon, or just out in the middle of a field, is FUN!!!

I think people sometimes lose sight of why these items are in the DMG in the first place. It's ok for some of this stuff to just be gear, as long as the players are having fun.

 

[jhingelshod]

Would you sell your car to a dealer £1000, knowing he could sell it for £2000, if CraigsList and the Internet didn't exist? If not, would you keep the car or go knocking door-to-door looking for car buyers?

D&D has a medieval economy. There are all kinds of market inefficiencies.

Yes, probably if I needed the money quickly. Would you sell it to him for £20 under the same circumstances?

 

[Ahrimon]

Eberron, in their history, just came out of a continent-wide conflict in which magic was used to such a degree that sentient golems were thrown at each other in massive quantities. One nation even deployed massive armies of undead. That's why Eberron has so few high-level spellcasters; most of them died in the war. And those armies were making use of magical weapons on a level that most 3E campaigns never approached.

So, from an setting viewpoint, there is still magic that adventurers can use everywhere. A lot of weapons from the war remain, and there are people who produce military-oriented magic items constantly (another part of the setting is that they're also gearing up for the next war). Plus, when the city of Sharn was detailed, shops where adventurers could buy magical items were detailed quite frequently. If you need a +1 magical sword, you didn't have to go digging in a tomb; you could head down to your local magic shop and buy a military surplus weapon. Or buy a newly-produced +1 sword.

I have all of the 3e eberron books, although it's been a while since I've read them. It's one of my favorite settings. Just because there was magic running rampant doesn't meant that every elite soldier was equipped with +x items or wands of Y. The warforged were designed by a nation that has been blown up using secrets gleaned from the continent of Xendric. They're the created by a complex pattern of rituals and while there are a lot of them it's not as if there's an assembly line of them being cranked out.

Eberron was designed for 3e, so they went with the +x items are hung on every mantle and every battlefield is littered with them. But for to bring eberron into 5e you have to look at things from a different angle. And it's easily done where you can keep the broad magic of eberron without tripping over enchanted weapons on every battlefield.

Armies get equipped with ballista shot that explode in a fireball. siege towers that walk themselves. Catapult stones that multiply in mid-air. Rolling tower shields with glyphs of blasting on them. You can have magic everywhere without needing to have every other sword and suit of armor being magical. Especially with the artificer's in the setting. Perhaps many of these items are only partially magical or unstable magic. A Balista bolt covered in runes that requires an artificer to power up prior to it being fired is a great example of that.

I'm not saying that's how anyone has to do it, I'm just trying to show a way to do eberron as a 5e game without there being magical swords and armor all over the place in a way that fits the entire narrative of eberron. It's not thinking about things from a PC point of view but from a world building point of view.

I do disagree that the war is the reason that there are so few high level casters. Granted it's been a while since I read the book so if it says something in there about it I'll accept that I'm wrong. I remember Eberron was set up to have a lower overall NPC level across the board. PCs are the unique ones that ever get to those higher levels. It was one of it's selling points to me.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Actually, I'd like to comment on this.

The item might be rare in the campaign world and rightfully so, but there might be some rare items that the PCs eventually find in every single one of my games.

Why?

Because they are fun! I don't give a rats rearend if WotC thinks that an item is rare and shouldn't be bought or any such thing. I care about whether my players are having fun. The PCs and the campaign world does not exist except in the minds of the people at the table, so if there is something cool in the DMG and it brings laughter and fun to the table, by gosh it's showing up. It doesn't matter how rare it is. As DM, I'm there to enhance the enjoyment of everyone and I find that finding magic items, regardless of whether they are found in a store, or in a dungeon, or just out in the middle of a field, is FUN!!!

I think people sometimes lose sight of why these items are in the DMG in the first place. It's ok for some of this stuff to just be gear, as long as the players are having fun.

There is nothing stopping you from having rare items show up as often as you want, and if you do so then your game isn't "wrong". I like that the pricing was left flexible to allow for different magic item economies. But economies aside, I agree that fun trumps all. If I want to include a bunch of vorpal weapons in my game just because a good number of heads flying off is amusing, then I'm certainly going to put them there.

 

[KarinsDad]

There is nothing stopping you from having rare items show up as often as you want, and if you do so then your game isn't "wrong". I like that the pricing was left flexible to allow for different magic item economies. But economies aside, I agree that fun trumps all. If I want to include a bunch of vorpal weapons in my game just because a good number of heads flying off is amusing, then I'm certainly going to put them there.

Well, it sounds like we are in agreement with the exception of the magic item pricing.

It's not really flexible. For all intents and purposes, it's nonexistent unless one considers the crafting costs to be an indication of item cost. Even so, your point the pricing allowing for different magic item economies still means that the DM will probably have to change the crafting costs if he wants a low (or high) magic item economy.

 

[Nergal Pendragon]

I have all of the 3e eberron books, although it's been a while since I've read them. It's one of my favorite settings. Just because there was magic running rampant doesn't meant that every elite soldier was equipped with +x items or wands of Y. The warforged were designed by a nation that has been blown up using secrets gleaned from the continent of Xendric. They're the created by a complex pattern of rituals and while there are a lot of them it's not as if there's an assembly line of them being cranked out.

Eberron was designed for 3e, so they went with the +x items are hung on every mantle and every battlefield is littered with them. But for to bring eberron into 5e you have to look at things from a different angle. And it's easily done where you can keep the broad magic of eberron without tripping over enchanted weapons on every battlefield.

Armies get equipped with ballista shot that explode in a fireball. siege towers that walk themselves. Catapult stones that multiply in mid-air. Rolling tower shields with glyphs of blasting on them. You can have magic everywhere without needing to have every other sword and suit of armor being magical. Especially with the artificer's in the setting. Perhaps many of these items are only partially magical or unstable magic. A Balista bolt covered in runes that requires an artificer to power up prior to it being fired is a great example of that.

I'm not saying that's how anyone has to do it, I'm just trying to show a way to do eberron as a 5e game without there being magical swords and armor all over the place in a way that fits the entire narrative of eberron. It's not thinking about things from a PC point of view but from a world building point of view.

I do disagree that the war is the reason that there are so few high level casters. Granted it's been a while since I read the book so if it says something in there about it I'll accept that I'm wrong. I remember Eberron was set up to have a lower overall NPC level across the board. PCs are the unique ones that ever get to those higher levels. It was one of it's selling points to me.

Despite wanting to disagree with you on having to adjust how you approach it, after doing some math on a semi-related topic of making a wizard who can be a frontline combatant as well as a fighter, I have to say that I am forced to agree. You may be quite interested in the magic items post I just made on that topic. It pretty much shows that 5E begins to mechanically fall apart if you give out a lot of magic items. This also means, likely, that a magic item economy must simply not exist at all in 5E.

So, yes, they will have to change how they approach magic items in Eberron as far as giving them to the players.

And, the books themselves do cite the war as a reason there are so few high-level casters. It cites it as a the reason there are so few high-level characters at all. They all died. Thus, the PCs live in the aftermath of that and are unique because they can advance to high levels in a world where those high levels are currently almost entirely found only in the history books.

 

[dream66_]

Right...because Bilbo just walked into a shop, browsed around, and purchased Sting. Right? Oh, wait, no...Sting was a truly rare item. When Bilbo didn't need it anymore, he didn't pop down to the local pawn shop and sell it, he handed it down. That should be the default behavior of magic items. Buying or selling should be very, very rare indeed. As a player, it's far more rewarding to go on a quest/adventure and come home with a rare magic item after much hard work and danger than it is to walk into Magic 'R' Us and buy what you need.

And in 4 books the "wizard" manages to cast light and thaumaturgy, I think we can assume the style of that campaign is much different than what we're used to.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

That's the point I was making. It wasn't MY "hyperbole". I was responding to another post that suggested a 100:1 (10,000%) markup "or even higher". I understand that car dealers make a profit and unlike you I actually have a fair idea what it is....about 30-50% give or take. It doesn't seem realistic or believable that anyone in a fantasy or medieval economy would willingly part with a treasured item for 1/100th of it's market value.

It is not so much that it is impossible to believe, but that the reasoning backing these assertions up is so skewed and one-sided as to be worthless.

The same market inefficiencies that result in the best offer for my "+1 sword nominally priced at 2000gp" being 200gp today, also suggest that it is possible that an earl whose grown only child is about to go off on an undead hunt might offer me 20,000gp tomorrow. Of that I might be able to buy a +3 sword for 900gp next week.

"Inefficiencies" can cut both ways. If we bother to think them through, that is.

 

[Ahrimon]

Despite wanting to disagree with you on having to adjust how you approach it, after doing some math on a semi-related topic of making a wizard who can be a frontline combatant as well as a fighter, I have to say that I am forced to agree. You may be quite interested in the magic items post I just made on that topic. It pretty much shows that 5E begins to mechanically fall apart if you give out a lot of magic items. This also means, likely, that a magic item economy must simply not exist at all in 5E.

So, yes, they will have to change how they approach magic items in Eberron as far as giving them to the players.

And, the books themselves do cite the war as a reason there are so few high-level casters. It cites it as a the reason there are so few high-level characters at all. They all died. Thus, the PCs live in the aftermath of that and are unique because they can advance to high levels in a world where those high levels are currently almost entirely found only in the history books.

I'll happily concede that I was wrong about the reason there were no high level NPCs. It has been a while since I read the book.

WotC has pretty much said from the beginning of 5e that default gameplay is balanced around no magic items. If you want to recreate the 3e/4e eberron feel and have your characters with lots of combat affecting items you'll have to consider them higher level for the purpose of what monsters they can take on. That could have the side effect of leveling the characters faster though. So it's probably a good idea to reduce the XP rewards from the creatures.

You could ensure that the PCs come across a lot of non-combat items so that they have a lot of utility type things. Just be careful about how they affect the interaction and exploration tiers. Then make sure that they're combat items are special and unique. Instead of a sword +1 give out a flaming sword, a staff with crystals floating around the end of it, or armor that is small bolts of lightning occasionally zipping across it. And then play it up how many of their more intelligent foes seem surprised or even afraid that they have that sort of magic at their disposal. Or you could make combat items with other types of effects like a suit of heavy armor that gives a 10ft bonus to movement when the character takes the charge action and surrounds them with a ghostly image of some big monster when they charge. Make the combat items fun and unique without ratcheting up the raw attack/damage numbers.

It is a bit of extra work, but until they release 5e Eberron (right after 5e Spelljammer, sorry you have to wait) this is what we're all left with to craft our games. Fortunately I think 5e gives us all the tools we need. It's just hard to find the time sometimes, and there's always the worry about goofing up. But as long as you're telling a good story most players will forgive a power imbalance as long as the DM admits it and adjusts from there.

 

[KarinsDad]

WotC has pretty much said from the beginning of 5e that default gameplay is balanced around no magic items.

And immediately put Potions of Healing and Holy Water on the Adventuring Gear list in the PHB.

They then handed Potions of Healing out like candy in LMoP along with a half dozen or more other magic items.

Yeah, this statement by WotC should be taken with a grain of salt. The game might mechanically be playable, but I suspect that most players enjoy campaigns with magic items more than they do campaigns without (at least IME) and that some number of magic items are expected by the game designers.

If you want to recreate the 3e/4e eberron feel and have your characters with lots of combat affecting items you'll have to consider them higher level for the purpose of what monsters they can take on. That could have the side effect of leveling the characters faster though. So it's probably a good idea to reduce the XP rewards from the creatures.

How much do you think items like a +1 weapon affect the game though? Is it really important to have the official 8 encounters for a given level instead of the 7 that magic items might result in? There's no doubt that having magic items increases the power and utility of the PCs, but percentage-wise, couldn't it also mean that the PCs sometimes just have more resources remaining at the end of adventuring days as well? I'm not convinced that there is always a 1 to 1 correspondence with more magic items and a lot faster leveling.