D&D 5E Where does the punitive approach to pc death come from?

Hmm...so, why should the group not choose to go questing to have their valiant companion, who held the hallway, resurrected?

I always hate this response. Aside from the literally infinite reasons why this might not be possible. It completely demeans the death. It's like dying while you're raiding in WoW. All it means it you just buff up and go back it. Keep hitting your head against the wall and as long as your head regenerates, the wall will eventually fall!
 

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Hmm...so, why should the group not choose to go questing to have their valiant companion, who held the hallway, resurrected?
In this case, why have death as a consequence of losing combat? Why not have it be unconsciousness instead (and the PC regains consciousness having been looted of cash and gear)? Or capture (and the friends spend money ransoming rather than resurrecting)?

There are any number of ways of introducing speed-bumps and/or cash-drains into the fiction of the game that don't require a PC to die.
 

In this case, why have death as a consequence of losing combat? Why not have it be unconsciousness instead (and the PC regains consciousness having been looted of cash and gear)?
That's just death spelled out in long form - OK, the character wakes up somewhere in the dungeon at 1 or 2 h.p. in his skivvies. The next Kobold that wanders by is most likely going to kill him and eat him. He still ends up dead, it just takes longer.
pemerton said:
Or capture (and the friends spend money ransoming rather than resurrecting)?
Or the friends do the dungeon again, only this time as a rescue mission. This could work, depending on the motivations of the original enemies. If they're greedy, character might survive long enough to be ransomed or rescued. If they're hungry, character dies either then and there or in the cookpot later.
pemerton said:
There are any number of ways of introducing speed-bumps and/or cash-drains into the fiction of the game that don't require a PC to die.
True, though keep in mind in earlier editions at least revival from death wasn't guaranteed - even if someone tried to bring you back you could still blow your resurrection survival roll. And you'd be down a Con point even if revival was successful. (I'll bang the drum yet again - those two mechanics should both be baked into 5e) Death represents a bit more there than the speed bump 5e has it being by RAW.

Lan-"right now in my game there's a PC who got himself captured, and from the party's standpoint that's way worse than if he had simply died"-efan
 


Wait, what? How could a 19 level disparity in any edition of D&D, or ANY game, not be a big deal? It's fine if that worked for your game, but I don't think that was something that generally happened in most groups.

This happened a few times over the years, admittedly earlyish in my RPG history and never in 5e. It was pretty common for us to start a 1st level pc in a level 25 group (ah basic dnd, my love for you will never die). Back then, gold = xp so the group killed ancient dragons and gave the gold to the newbie. Lol, fun times.
 

Because resurrection doesn't always work. In this case, the paladin in question got eaten by a black dragon. Resurrection needs some part of the body doesn't it?

I believe it needs the head, the majority of the torso and most importantly, the heart. I think some older editions were more specific, 5th is not really beyond the head and heart, so really you only need as many parts as they made robocop with.

Which would actually be pretty cool, in order to res a person you needed their head and their heart, but still needed a full body, so you could res someone in someone else's body, just with their head and heart.
 

That's just death spelled out in long form - OK, the character wakes up somewhere in the dungeon at 1 or 2 h.p. in his skivvies. The next Kobold that wanders by is most likely going to kill him and eat him. He still ends up dead, it just takes longer.
Or the friends do the dungeon again, only this time as a rescue mission.
These aren't the only ways of doing unconsciousness or ransom. And not all action in D&D takes place in a dungeon.
 

I believe it needs the head, the majority of the torso and most importantly, the heart. I think some older editions were more specific, 5th is not really beyond the head and heart, so really you only need as many parts as they made robocop with.

Which would actually be pretty cool, in order to res a person you needed their head and their heart, but still needed a full body, so you could res someone in someone else's body, just with their head and heart.

This seems like a bit more of a campaign-specific twist than I'm aware of. That is, in 3e (and I'm fairly sure 4e too) it's just some important body part, but it might be the head (or skull, if it's decayed) specifically. I've never heard a mention of needing the heart before.

That said, though? This could be a pretty interesting premise in a campaign where death was not unusual. "You can accept death...or you can accept a new body." Presumably that would mean (a) rerolling your stats and (b) possibly taking a Charisma hit. Sort of a campaign-specific variation of the old random tables for determining what kind of creature you resurrect as.

Personally, if I were running a campaign, I'd follow some kind of ruling structure like this:
1) If it seems really inappropriate (for whatever reason) for the character to actually die--they just won't. I might bill it as the character "dying," but take that particular player aside and try to work out some kind of interesting "rescue" plot or "mind-controlled servant" or whatever they think would be cool. Still probably requires a replacement, temporary or otherwise, but not truly "dead."
2) If the character is under level 5ish and has not yet "died" in this campaign, they get an automatic "freebie with strings." A god, a demonic/devilish figure, a fey being--some powerful entity shows up and offers a deal. If the character already has particular ties (e.g. Warlock, Cleric/Paladin, Druid, etc.) those may factor in--both from whomever/whatever they're sworn to...and possibly the enemies of whomever they're sworn to. (Always some nice tension there.) Such already-bound characters may even spontaneously wake up without accepting anything, the entity in question hoping that it will be easier to demand service rather than offer a strings-attached deal.
3) If the character is over level 5 or has already "died" at least once, they stay dead, but may be resurrected. Predatory creatures might leave enough of the body behind to track down the rest--or to enable an expensive/difficult resurrection ritual. If the party is cool with it (and the player is interested), this may become a brand-new quest, to restore their fallen comrade.
4) If the party as a whole doesn't want to resurrect the character, but the player doesn't want to let it go, I might try to weave in a more...strange version. For example, if only one other character wants the resurrection, they could make a deal with a hedge witch a la Disney's Ursula: pay a price, get "what you want," even if it's not what you expected. Then I'd roll on a random table of races to see what comes of it. Double-plus side: this actually still leaves open the option of the character's body being resurrected normally--which then leaves an open question about who is "real" or not (or both, or neither!) and other juicy goodness.

Also, all of that aside? I like the 4e method (which 5e more or less uses too) where you have to fail a certain number of saves to actually "die." It prolongs the tension of dying--keeping that feeling of tension in the air--while keeping death in the uncommon-but-not-impossible range where I prefer it to be. For a party that actually prepares to face deadly situations, there should always be a chance to pull an ally out, incapacitated but alive, IMO.

Incidentally: I respect others feeling that the game has no tension if you can't lose it all, but for me it's exactly the opposite; if every hand could invalidate all the winnings I've made, that saps the tension for me. It's why I take a dim view of people fiat declaring that you can only have tension with a constant looming threat of death.
 

I always hate this response. Aside from the literally infinite reasons why this might not be possible. It completely demeans the death. It's like dying while you're raiding in WoW. All it means it you just buff up and go back it. Keep hitting your head against the wall and as long as your head regenerates, the wall will eventually fall!

No. It's called "plot hook": you care for a friend? You go and try to have him resurrected. Or do your PC care more about raiding the dungeon than bringing back a friend?
 

Because resurrection doesn't always work. In this case, the paladin in question got eaten by a black dragon. Resurrection needs some part of the body doesn't it?

IIRC True Resurrection doesn't. Or a wish. Nor a god. Was it a Paladin? Does the Power he worship(ped) see his role in the world not yet fulfilled? Fine, the Paladin gets resurrected, maybe after a quest, maybe with a powerful geas bestowed upon him.
 

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