D&D 5E What's the point of gold?

[FormerlyHemlock]

But they say nothing about how much those items are equivalent and how equal players will be with them in their hands, because the point of allowing them to buy magic items is so they can enjoy them, not to make one of them more powerful than the others, if a dose of sovereign glue is way more expensive than a tome of clear thought, the player going for the first is not going to be equivalent to the later, and that is not fair.

They do provide an equivalency scale in the form of rarity.

Face it, 5E is nice in a lot of ways but a lot of the rules are totally bonkers. (Spell design rules for example.) There's no point in complaining about 5E's lack of rules for spending gold on, say, spell research when there is every indication that even if such rules did exist, you'd be better off throwing them away and writing your own. That's not a slam on 5E, it's good at what it is.

If you want a magic item shop, make a magic item shop. +2 quarterstaff with the Guardian property on sale now for a mere 4000 gp, the price of a herd of elephants! Girdle of Storm Giant Strength now accepting bids, currently high bid is 200,000 gold from Manfred von Manley! (Do the PCs bid against him or just quietly cut his throat when he's asleep?)

Honestly guys, official rules are kind of hit-and-miss anyway. Use the good ones, ignore the bad ones, and make up your own where there aren't any good ones--while recognizing that "good" rules are a matter of taste anyway. House rules are always the best but they take more work...

 

[MoonSong]

They do provide an equivalency scale in the form of rarity.

And I tell you this equivalence just doesn't work. Under the rarity scale, Soveregin glue is considered as game changing as a vorpal sword, and more than a tome of clear thought. I can't just let my players buy indiscriminately without some of them becoming more powerful than the others.

 

[Hussar]

And I tell you this equivalence just doesn't work. Under the rarity scale, Soveregin glue is considered as game changing as a vorpal sword, and more than a tome of clear thought. I can't just let my players buy indiscriminately without some of them becoming more powerful than the others.

Well yeah. But that's always been true.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

And I tell you this equivalence just doesn't work. Under the rarity scale, Soveregin glue is considered as game changing as a vorpal sword, and more than a tome of clear thought. I can't just let my players buy indiscriminately without some of them becoming more powerful than the others.

I agree! I'll say it again: many of the official rules in 5E are totally bonkers. You're better off coming up with your own in this case.

5E is good at what it does, but setting up economies is not one of its core competencies. House rules are better than simplistic "official" rules--but it is baffling when people claim that the official rules don't exist. They do exist; they're just not very good. Make your own and you'll be happier.

I don't think you need to worry though about players spending 500,000 gp on a dose of sovereign glue. They're not morons.

 

[pemerton]

"Uhhh.... Make it up." is pretty much the catchphrase for 5E.
Its especially noticeable with ships and strongholds. When WotC noticed that gold was useless they threw in those big ticket items. But how do they integrate into the game world best? "Uhhh.... Make it up, we don't care, give us money."

For US $4.99 you can buy the Expert rulebook from DriveThru RPG: http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/produ...t-Rulebook-B-X-ed-Basic?filters=0_0_44827_0_0

It has rules on integrating ships and strongholds into the campaign if you're looking for some. I'm pretty sure they'll work fine in 5e.

 

[MoonSong]

I agree! I'll say it again: many of the official rules in 5E are totally bonkers. You're better off coming up with your own in this case.

5E is good at what it does, but setting up economies is not one of its core competencies. House rules are better than simplistic "official" rules--but it is baffling when people claim that the official rules don't exist. They do exist; they're just not very good. Make your own and you'll be happier.

I don't think you need to worry though about players spending 500,000 gp on a dose of sovereign glue. They're not morons.

If I need to start from scratch, I guess I'll stick with a system I already know. how can I tinker with something I don't know?

And in the sovereign glue, you just don't know. Not everybody has the system mastery to see the most subtle but noticeable inequalities, if I present an option it should be a real option. I already go too liberally with rules and plot, almost like DMing from stream of mind. I need the game to bring clear rules and to keep players on equal terms, because my style is reactive and ever-changing and I don't want to be unfair to players which could happen if I have to micromanage everything so things remain fair.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

If I need to start from scratch, I guess I'll stick with a system I already know. how can I tinker with something I don't know?

You can stick with a system you already know, if you like. Don't change unless the good of 5E outweighs the bad, including the transition costs. There's nothing wrong with playing AD&D in 2015, or OD&D or D&D 3rd edition or Shadowrun or GURPS or Ars Magica or whatever floats your boat.

And in the sovereign glue, you just don't know. Not everybody has the system mastery to see the most subtle but noticeable inequalities, if I present an option it should be a real option. I already go too liberally with rules and plot, almost like DMing from stream of mind. I need the game to bring clear rules and to keep players on equal terms, because my style is reactive and ever-changing and I don't want to be unfair to players which could happen if I have to micromanage everything so things remain fair.

Really? You have players who would actually spend 500,000 gp on sovereign glue if you gave it to them as an option? What's wrong with them? One reason you picked it as an example for this thread is that it's the most obviously bad valuation in the whole system except for universal solvent which is arguably even worse. Your guys wouldn't just look at that price tag and think, "nah, I'd rather have a +1 sword for 0.1% of the price, and spend the rest on 499 doses of purple worm venom"? They would actually buy the glue?

I think you do your players a disservice, but if you're representing them accurately, I feel sorry for them. Not for anything relating to D&D but for what must happen to them when they spend money in real life.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I can think of fun things to do with sovereign glue. And I might be willing to pay for it...in gold, or in my PC learning the secret to making it.

 

[MoonSong]

Really? You have players who would actually spend 500,000 gp on sovereign glue if you gave it to them as an option? What's wrong with them? One reason you picked it as an example for this thread is that it's the most obviously bad valuation in the whole system except for universal solvent which is arguably even worse. Your guys wouldn't just look at that price tag and think, "nah, I'd rather have a +1 sword for 0.1% of the price, and spend the rest on 499 doses of purple worm venom"? They would actually buy the glue?

I think you do your players a disservice, but if you're representing them accurately, I feel sorry for them. Not for anything relating to D&D but for what must happen to them when they spend money in real life.

Not everybody is an optimizer, a powergamer or has the system mastery to catch if a folding boat is more game changing than a +1 sword of boringness. The point of giving players free reign over magic items is so they can have fun with them, not to promote powergaming.

 

[Ahrimon]

Not everybody is an optimizer, a powergamer or has the system mastery to catch if a folding boat is more game changing than a +1 sword of boringness. The point of giving players free reign over magic items is so they can have fun with them, not to promote powergaming.

I'm an optimizer that usually has a pretty good of system mastery and I'm an occasional powergamer. I would happily take the folding boat over the +1 sword. I'll take restful bedrolls and instant campfires too. Even an evercleaning cookpot would be welcome. There are so many fun and game changing items to be had out there beyond plus-this or flaming-that.