D&D 5E Spell Preparation: Leaving Slots Open

[Galendril]

Ruling that you can slot up spells on the fly almost completely nullifies the point of having ritual casters.

 

[TwoSix]

That's not true. The fact that some interpreted it this way in 3E also does not establish that this was an option. The assumption that 3E allowed this is just as much in contention as whether 5E allows this.

My interpretation and opinion is that they do not - for the reasons I gave.

It isn't in contention, or at least it certainly shouldn't be.

Pathfinder SRD:
"When preparing spells for the day, a wizard can leave some of these spell slots open. Later during that day, he can repeat the preparation process as often as he likes, time and circumstances permitting. During these extra sessions of preparation, the wizard can fill these unused spell slots. He cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because he has cast a spell in the meantime. That sort of preparation requires a mind fresh from rest. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if the wizard prepares more than one-quarter of his spells."

d20 SRD:
"When preparing spells for the day, a wizard can leave some of these spell slots open. Later during that day, she can repeat the preparation process as often as she likes, time and circumstances permitting. During these extra sessions of preparation, the wizard can fill these unused spell slots. She cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because she has cast a spell in the meantime. That sort of preparation requires a mind fresh from rest. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if the wizard prepares more than one-quarter of her spells."

 

[MoonSong]

Well, it could be ruled that way it seems, I consider it possibly broken, wizards don't need to be even more flexible. But I guess I would allow it if a sufficiently determined wizard player made the case. Then of course I would take the chance of doing something evil to his spellbook right away. Yes, he can make another one, but can only include spells already prepared! (making him wish he had prepared the whole list) n_n, ;3 .

Remember though that these rules were in the playtest until the very end. Where they removed from the PHB because of balance? Or maybe to simplify a rarely used option? This option was in 3rd edition throughout and it never caused a balance issue or created a problem for the sorcerer. We used it as standard in our group. It takes a number of minutes to prep spells so you couldn't just do it on the fly and you didn't always have time to prep when you wanted too

Well, but wizards still had 1:1 spell preparation anyway and less spells per day, a sorcerer would fear nothing of that. In 5e the sorcerer already has very little over the wizard, not even simple weapons anymore. The last thing wizards need is even more toys.

That's not true. The fact that some interpreted it this way in 3E also does not establish that this was an option. The assumption that 3E allowed this is just as much in contention as whether 5E allows this.

My interpretation and opinion is that they do not - for the reasons I gave.

3e did allow it. it was explicit, prepare a partial list or a full list. completely clear with rules for preparing again later in the day, as far as I remember there were even feats interacting with open slots. It just wasn't on the class listings, but rather on the general spellcasting rules. 5e doesn't exactly say anything in comparison.

 

[AriochQ]

ok, so we are reading the same thing. However, and for those of us who contend its not so cut and dry, further down in the example:

"With a Wisdom of 16, your list of prepared spells can include six spells of 1st or 2nd level, in any combination." [emphasis mine]

It says "can include" not "must include". So I think its fair to say its not so cut and dry. As Crawford would put it, the RAW might be everything at one time, but the RAI might be you can leave empty ones to be filled later.



RAF is my preferred benchmark as well. So no worries there.

Another way of reading that would be to that it CAN'T include 4 spells of 1st or 2nd level (or 1, or 2, or 3, etc). The "can" refers to the fact that there are multiple combinations of 6 1st or 2nd level spells that you can choose to prepare.

I tend toward the idea that allowing partial preparation is bending (but not breaking) the rules as written. The text seems to assume preparing all the spells at once. Only through splitting hairs do you get to an interpretation that implies partial preparation. If they would have intended partial preparation, they would have addressed it imho.

 

[occam]

PS for folks coming from 3e: once that list of prepared spells is made, it stays "intact" until you change it. If you're not changing your list, there's no need to spend time re-preparing that same list each day. In other words: if your cleric is jumped in the morning, he's still got all his prepared spells available. There's no longer a requirement to take time to pray to "regain" spells.

Right, you only spend the time to prepare when changing the list of prepared spells.

The terminology is throwing people off, as others have noted. A caster has slots used to cast prepared spells, but a caster does not prepare spells in slots. A caster prepares one, single thing: a list of spells. A "partial" list with "slots" to be filled in later doesn't exist in the rules; it's just a list of spells.

You can change that list any time you want, assuming you've had a long rest since the last time you changed the list, and spend the time to change it. You don't need to wait until the next day to swap out spells on your list if you haven't changed the list since your last long rest.

If you don't prepare all the spells you could on your list (i.e. "leave slots open" using inappropriate-for-5e terminology), you don't get any advantage for that, so there's no point to doing it.

Now here's where I would propose a house rule:

Preparing a new list of class spells requires time spent in doing stuff appropriate for that class: at least 1 minute per spell level for each spell on your list that did not appear on the previous list.​

That gets the a little more of the flexibility being sought by those wanting to emulate 3e- and playtest-style rules, without the need to leave prepared "slots open" and thus creating 5e conceptual confusion. The spell list is still a single thing, separate from slots used to cast, and you can change it once between long rests, using a minimal modification to the rules as written just to shorten the time required for small changes to the list.

 

[Staffan]

Not really. Add up the minutes. It's a minute per spell level, not a minute per spell. It adds up to quite a lot later on.

By 6th level you have 4 1st, 3 2nd, 3 3rd.

No, you don't. By 6th level, a prepared-list caster has 6 + ability modifier spells prepared spread across 1st through 3rd level, plus possibly some bonus spells for domain or land.

The 6th level caster then has the above number of spell slots with which to actually cast the spells prepared.

 

[Zaruthustran]

I'm struck by how... easy this discussion is. The 5E ethos of "rulings not rules" has apparently taken hold.

In 3e, I think this topic would have much more vehemence and passion about the "right" interpretation. Here, the discussion's tone is pleasantly theoretical, with the consensus being "play the way you want to play."

I'd say, bravo to the 5E team. It's working!

 

[El Mahdi]

It isn't in contention...

Pathfinder SRD:
El Mahdi edit - Pathfinder is not D&D, so therefore does not support your argument even though it says the same thing as the D20 SRD.

d20 SRD:
"When preparing spells for the day, a wizard can leave some of these spell slots open. Later during that day, she can repeat the preparation process as often as she likes, time and circumstances permitting. During these extra sessions of preparation, the wizard can fill these unused spell slots. She cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because she has cast a spell in the meantime. That sort of preparation requires a mind fresh from rest. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if the wizard prepares more than one-quarter of her spells."

3e did allow it. it was explicit, prepare a partial list or a full list. completely clear with rules for preparing again later in the day, as far as I remember there were even feats interacting with open slots. It just wasn't on the class listings, but rather on the general spellcasting rules. 5e doesn't exactly say anything in comparison.

Well how about that. 15 years of 3E and I learn something new about it. I thought Evenglare was just being sarcastic; but in hindsight, maybe not. I even went back and checked my original 3.0 books, and yup, it says it there too (meaning it's not just a 3.5 thing).

So, I was wrong.

Whether I agree with it or not (I still think it steps on the toes of the Sorcerer), it was that way in 3E, and quite likely could have been left vague in 5E for the very interpretation that Celtavian is getting from it. (There are a lot of things left vague or that seem to allow multiple interpretations for, IMO, just this very reason.)

So, quite likely, either way is okay officially. That is unless they decide to do a Sage Advice on this; which I hope they don't. 5E is supposed to appeal to fans of multiple editions. Leaving this aspect the way it is, unclarified, leaves it open for both points of view.

I'm going to go now and begin my self-imposed seclusion of 40 days in order to study the rules more thoroughly.

Game On.



(Just kidding about the 40 days thing...)

 

[Celtavian]

No, you don't. By 6th level, a prepared-list caster has 6 + ability modifier spells prepared spread across 1st through 3rd level, plus possibly some bonus spells for domain or land.

The 6th level caster then has the above number of spell slots with which to actually cast the spells prepared.

That's right. So it could take longer or shorter. 10 prepared spells on average. It would still be about the same. At the end you would have 25 prepared spells. So it might be over 89 minutes depending on what you changed out.

 

[Celtavian]

The "When..." is definitive. It has no qualifier. When you prepare spells, you do the entire amount. So no slots should be empty save to screw yourself. When you want to change, it has to be a long rest. A natural reading of the "When..." text I overlooked. That means one time between long rests. Oh well, it wouldn't have been that great an advantage, though I do prefer the fiction of preparing a spell when needed rather than all at once.