And truer words were ne'er spoken.
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D&D 5E Assassinate
- Thread starter Jaracove
- Start date
And truer words were ne'er spoken.
They don't have to mention it.
If you define a turkey sandwich as "turkey between two pieces of bread," and then I tell you that for today's lunch you can't have turkey or bread, I didn't tell you you can't have a turkey sandwich, but it doesn't look like you're having one today, does it?
Also, try this trick: The next time you're a player in a game, have 0 hit points, and you're incapacitated, politely inform the DM that you don't have to make a death saving throw on your turn because you don't technically have a turn. After all, you lost it because you can't move or act.
I have already admitted Mike Mearls has confirmed your interpretation.
All I want you to acknowledge is that it is not clearly stated that surprise ends when a person can take reactions. It is implied, but not clearly stated. It seems it should be, at least in my opinion. This thread would not exist if they had included a single sentence that stated, "Surprise ends after the person's first turn."
Good on you being right about the implied rule.
This is also true. Reactions do not occur on your turn and reset at the start of your turn. That is the only way in which they interact with your turn. Why you can take a reaction after your turn is over is rule construct that doesn't occur anywhere but surprise. Most reactions are regained at the start of a turn you take rather than after a turn you did nothing. How can we know reactions mean you took a turn when normally they are regained at the start of your turn?
Wouldn't it further imply a turn was not taken because you don't get your reaction until the turn is done?
When do you normally get your reaction back if you have used it?
You do get a turn. You just get to make a Death save at the start of your turn. Your turn is the death save. Then you're done. Everything is clearly spelled out, not implied in anyway. You take an action making a death saving throw.
How would I rule this scenario? Well, here are the steps I'd go through:
First, both the PC bard/assassin and the drow would roll DEX (Stealth) checks. If either check was less than the other's Passive Perception and (in the case of the drow's check) less that the wizard's... then that character isn't hidden and thus doesn't get an action in the Surprise round and can't assassinate anyway.
Next... I'd ask the PC what they are doing in the moments leading up to the attempted assassination? Are they looking around for the enemy assassin? If so, then they'd get to make an active Perception check in hopes of seeing the drow before the attack. Most likely, I'd let the wizard NPC make that active Perception check as well (since the wizard knew they were bait and expected an attack to come from somewhere). If either roll comes in over the drow's DEX (Stealth) check, the the drow is noticed and thus it loses it's Surprise round action and Assassinate attempt. If, however, both the PC and Wizard rolls less that the drow's Stealth check... then they don't know the drow is there and the Surprise round can come into play.
Now... If the drow was not perceived by either the PC or wizard, the drow will get to act during the Surprise round and thus can attempt to Assassinate the wizard or either the wizard or invisible PC (if the drow's Passive Perception was higher than the PC's Stealth check and thus he knows the invisible PC is there.) If that was the case (and the drow noticed the invisible PC standing next to the wizard), it would be up to the drow to decide which of the two of them he was going to attack.
Here comes the fun part. If the drow attempts the Surprise round hidden attack from range, then the attack can be made no problem, the drow has Advantage on the attack due to being Hidden, and will get to add in both the Assassinate's auto-crit, as well as Sneak Attack (provided of course Assassinate isn't not "melee-only", which since I don't have the books with me, I'm actually not positive about that.)
However... should the drow NOT have perceived the invisible PC and thus instead thought the wizard was alone... I (as the DM) might say the drow silently tries to approach the wizard from behind, in order to attempt a melee Surprise round attack instead. (Personally... I allow Hidden creatures to sneak up on people from behind using their movement and still be considered Hidden for the attack if the target is not looking in the direction of the approaching creature and the stealthed creature can reach melee range with its movement.) BUT... should the drow attempt this, I would rule the PC would automatically spot the approaching drow, because the drow is only focused on remaining out of line-of-sight from the wizard and doesn't know someone else is there to spot him. Since the drow doesn't know the invisible PC is there, he isn't maneuvering to maintain his Hidden status to the PC, only the wizard.
Once the invisible PC sees the approaching drow, the drow no longer gets to act in the Surprise round (thus losing his Sneak Attack and Assassinate ability attempts), but now the PC bard/assassin DOES (and can make a Surprise round attack against the drow, adding in his own Sneak Attack and auto-critting.)
Then... after any Surprise round attack occurs and combat official has begun, everyone rolls initiative and normal combat commences. And as per the Assassinate ability, should the drow go before the wizard because his initiative was higher (and of course was the one who made the Surprise round attack in the first place), then the drow gets to add his Sneak Attack dice on that next attack as well, since the wizard hasn't gone yet. Conversely, if the PC made the Surprise round attack on the drow and then rolled a higher initiative to start combat, the PC would get that next attack with Sneak Attack as well since the drow still hadn't gone.
These rulings of mine all come down simply to seeing in my mind's eye what should be happening, and applying the requisite mechanics to adjudicate it. And because all the rules are written with such a light hand... nothing I have above is a massive F-U or tossing out of the Hiding, Perception, Surprise, Sneak Attack, Assassinate, and Initiative rules in the book. They all fall pretty well into place. They are all my Rulings, not Rules.
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Hriston
Dungeon Master of Middle-earth (He/him)
The question I was answering was about how you know when a creature is no longer surprised. Surprise is the thing that connects reactions with turns, or are you incapable of following a logical argument?
