D&D 5E XP Per Adventuring Day Per Player is Ridiculous

[ExploderWizard]

I am sitting here putting together potential encounters for one of my campaigns. I assembled a list of 5 DEADLY encounters that still fall short of the suggested XP for a day.

This campaign has 8, sometimes 9 players of 5th level. I did all my calculations based on a party of 8. Here is what I was playing around with for ideas ( forest encounters):

4 ettercaps & 12 giant spiders- 4200XP

2 wereboars & 6 giant boars- 4900XP

3 wyverns- 6900XP

Coven of 3 green hags- 5400XP

12 harpies & 1 harpy queen (custom CR6)- 4700XP

All that earns each character 3262.5 XP each. The "standard" is 3500 XP per day.

Based on the XP per day, characters should advance to 15th level in 33 adventuring days. This is beyond ludicrous.

Does anyone else think this pace is utterly ridiculous?

 

[MerricB]

Do you consider it too fast or too slow?

Honestly, now we've had a lot of time with the actual 5E game, I wouldn't be opposed to an overhaul of the CR/XP system based on its play.

Cheers!

 

[ExploderWizard]

Do you consider it too fast or too slow?

Honestly, now we've had a lot of time with the actual 5E game, I wouldn't be opposed to an overhaul of the CR/XP system based on its play.

Cheers!

Oh WAAYY too slow obviously. I mean 1st to 15th level should only take about a week right?

 

[Psikerlord#]

This just demonstrates the whole "adventuring day" quota is an illusion. Just use whatever encounters you feel are appropriate for the adventure/in response to what players do.

 

[MG.0]

Agreed. Advancement in 5th edition is very fast.

My advice is to forget the XP per day calculations and just design encounters you think will challenge your players.

Fixing the rate of advancement is really two separate issues. Everybody is likely to have different views on what the correct rate is for each:

1) Real world time:
This can be adjusted by changing XP rewards, or levelling requirements. Simple.

2) In game time:
This is a little trickier. Requiring training periods between levels can help but interferes with time sensitive storylines. I'd allow players on time-sensitive quests to level up immediately provided they spend the required training time immediately afterward. I haven't done this yet in 5th edition, but am planning to. I will probably think of some tweaks in the meantime.

 

[ExploderWizard]

This just demonstrates the whole "adventuring day" quota is an illusion. Just use whatever encounters you feel are appropriate for the adventure/in response to what players do.

Oh I have been. I was curious to see what kind day would be required to maintain the "expected" pace per the guidelines. I doubt the party could survive such a day.

 

[Hussar]

But, just to be contrary, let's not forget that you don't, typically, string your adventuring days back to back. You typically are going to have a number of down time days so, while 33 days might seem really fast, it could easily be three or four times that in game time.

Also note, that since you are using Deadly encounters, you should be killing PC's fairly often. Even if you aren't, you might see more down time due to things like recovering from poison or just more frequent long rests.

 

[ExploderWizard]

But, just to be contrary, let's not forget that you don't, typically, string your adventuring days back to back. You typically are going to have a number of down time days so, while 33 days might seem really fast, it could easily be three or four times that in game time.

Also note, that since you are using Deadly encounters, you should be killing PC's fairly often. Even if you aren't, you might see more down time due to things like recovering from poison or just more frequent long rests.

Certainly all these factors come into play. My point was that a single day filled with PC killing encounters still wasn't enough to qualify as an "average" XP earning day. Not that parties have to have many days like this, back to back or anything. This one single PC killing day doesn't quite live up to XP earning expectations. It makes me wonder what kind of day it would take to have a super-earning XP day!

I have no intention of actually trying to run such a day in actual play. Just trying to make all those encounters make sense in the course of a single days forest travel isn't something I want to devote serious thought to.

 

[MerricB]

I do find that the XP budget does odd things when you have more than 4-5 players, though. At 8-9 players, the budget is likely to get very strange.

Cheers!

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Based on the XP per day, characters should advance to 15th level in 33 adventuring days. This is beyond ludicrous.

Does anyone else think this pace is utterly ridiculous?

Er, yes and no. I have no problem with the idea that someone who has survived a dozen deadly fights to the death is a dangerous person. I have some problems with the fact that the DMG guidelines point you towards easy fights more like a hunting trip than a war. And I have a LOT of problems with the idea that this would all happen in a month, if every day turned out to be an adventuring day. Yesterday you were nothing and now you're a master thief because you killed an iron golem or six?

My solution is to accept the logic: PCs are life force vampires who gain strength through the death of others. Like Highlanders for whom There Can Be Only One. It is still annoying but it is part of the game.

Besides, high-level play is fun, and Bounded Accuracy means there are plenty of credible threats to even high-level PCs.