Converting Epic Level Creatures

[Cleon]

If he can spontaenously cast them, shouldn't he have access to them?

If he can spontaneously cast them why would he bother writing them down in his spellbooks? He never needs to prepare them.

I see no reason to deny him a spell PCs don't like. Besides, it's not typically prepared. I think that's generally ok, though.

As you like, I don't mind adding disjunction if you fancy it.

 

[freyar]

The Spells ability actually says, "Andromidus has access to the following wizard spells," not that they're in his spellbook. So it really needs to say he has access to them, otherwise he can't cast them spontaneously!

 

[Cleon]

The Spells ability actually says, "Andromidus has access to the following wizard spells," not that they're in his spellbook. So it really needs to say he has access to them, otherwise he can't cast them spontaneously!

Contrariwise, if he can cast them spontaneously he doesn't need to access them for spell preparation purposes.

Oh heck, I guess it'd be simpler to add "plus all Illusion spells" to the spells known list than circle through this argument yet again.

Shall we add disjunction while we're at it?

 

[freyar]

Yes, let's go ahead and add disjunction and the Sorc/Wiz spell lists to the working draft. I guess we should do the cleric spells next.

 

[Cleon]

Yes, let's go ahead and add disjunction and the Sorc/Wiz spell lists to the working draft.

Updating the Andromidus Working Draft.

I guess we should do the cleric spells next.

That'd seem the next logical step...

 

[freyar]

Well, let's see if we want to crib from Prometheus again. His cleric casting is

Prometheus
Spells: Prometheus can cast divine spells as a 13th-level cleric. Prometheus has access to the following domains: Good, Fire, Knowledge, and Protection. The save DCs are Wisdom-based.
Typical Cleric Spells Prepared (6/10/10/8/8/7/6/4; save DC 24 + spell level):
0 – create water, detect magic, light, mending, purify food and drink, read magic;
1st – bless (x2), bless water, burning hands*, detect evil, divine favor, entropic shield, protection from evil, remove fear, sanctuary, shield of faith;
2nd – aid, augury, bear's endurance, bull's strength, eagle's splendor, make whole, owl's wisdom, produce flame*, shield other, silence, status;
3rd – clairaudience/clairvoyance*, continual flame, daylight, helping hand, locate object, prayer, searing light, stone shape, water walk;
4th – air walk, death ward, dimensional anchor, dismissal, divination, freedom of movement, holy smite*, sending, tongues;
5th – commune, dispel evil, fire shield*, flame strike, mass cure light wounds, plane shift, scrying, true seeing;
6th, 7th not available for Andromidus

OK, those look like a decent start, but Prometheus has more casting. I say we cut what we need to cut, which is 0/1/1/1/1/1, then swap some stuff around. We also need to choose his domains! Anyway, I say we drop 1 bless, aid, locate object, tongues, flame strike. What do you think?

 

[Cleon]

Well, let's see if we want to crib from Prometheus again. His cleric casting is

*SNIP*

OK, those look like a decent start, but Prometheus has more casting. I say we cut what we need to cut, which is 0/1/1/1/1/1, then swap some stuff around. We also need to choose his domains! Anyway, I say we drop 1 bless, aid, locate object, tongues, flame strike. What do you think?

I'd like to keep the tongues but am not sure what to cut in their stead.

For the 2nd level I'd cut produce flames rather than aid.

For the 3rd level I'd cut searing light rather than locate object.

As for the Domains, Andromidus shouldn't have Fire like Prometheus because he's not mythologically linked to that element (Prometheus being the "Fire Bringer" and all).

Good and Knowledge are both good matches to his background as a neutral good being who acts as an oracle. We could cut Protection if we wanted to make room for a different Domain.

How about using the one of the SRD's additional domains? Artifice and Nobility are tempting. I toyed with the idea of Creation, but it has two illusion spells in it which are surplus to requirements.

 

[freyar]

I'm ok with cutting produce flames and searing light. If you want to keep tongues, I guess I'd drop death ward. He's known for wisdom and foresight, so he should definitely keep the divination spells, and the others just seem to fit. I guess I could possibly drop air walk, dimensional anchor, or dismissal instead.

The Artifice domain is also a bit redundant due to his Transmutation ability, though it is a thematic. Still, I think Nobility would work (cutting Protection). Do Good, Knowledge, and Nobility sound ok to you?

 

[Cleon]

I'm ok with cutting produce flames and searing light.

Suits me!

If you want to keep tongues, I guess I'd drop death ward. He's known for wisdom and foresight, so he should definitely keep the divination spells, and the others just seem to fit. I guess I could possibly drop air walk, dimensional anchor, or dismissal instead.

I'd argue death ward is one of the most useful of his 4th level spells. Immunity to energy drain is a life saver. Literally. The most extraneous of the spells looks to be air walk. How about swapping that?

The Artifice domain is also a bit redundant due to his Transmutation ability, though it is a thematic. Still, I think Nobility would work (cutting Protection). Do Good, Knowledge, and Nobility sound ok to you?

He can only use 100 pounds of transmutation a day, so some additional transmutation spells might come in handy. Besides, I suggested it for flavour reasons as much as anything.

Also, I presumed we were giving him four domains like Prometheus has, so how about Artifice, Good, Knowledge and Nobility?

 

[freyar]

Death ward is very useful if he's running into energy drain situations. It doesn't really bother me either way, but I think I'd rather have Andromidus provide transportation rather than protection if he's using his spells on behalf of PCs. It just seems more appropriate for him.

Those 4 domains will work!