D&D 5E Warlock and Repelling Blast

[Noctem]

Ah, so you have zero rebuttal other than a bunch of image macros you don't fully understand. That's okay, actually, most people misuse logical fallacies. I mean, I post a clear breakdown of the rules, don't add anything, and point to what they actually say, and you scream "argument from silence!" and "circular argument!". The shifting the burden isn't a fallacy, either, since I'm merely asking you to show evidence for your claim, not to prove mine. I've shown my work, where's yours?

If, instead, you meant this as a nice diversion to cover your retreat from the field, very well, I accept your surrender.

I'm not making a claim. I'm explaining that your claim, which is that readied actions interrupt actions and movement isn't based off the rules of the game. It doesn't say anywhere in what you quoted that readied actions can interrupt the attack action when there's multiple attacks happening. You're assuming you can for some reason. In this case, I'm the person doubting your claim and I'm presenting facts that reflect that doubt, such as that there's another perfectly acceptable interpretation that doesn't rely on assumption of design intent and sticks to exactly what's written to function for example. I don't need to add language or meaning to the examples, I just follow what it says. The goblin moves next to me, so I move away (no mention of ongoing movement or whatever). The cultist moves onto a trap door, so I pull the lever (again, no mention of ongoing movement). Neither of the examples given say or imply that the trigger interrupts ongoing movement. What they do is show a trigger, an observable event and then what action is taken as a result. You still have a long way to go to show that you can interrupt multiple attacks with a readied action.

Also you keep using terms like defeat, victory, surrender and so on. Relax buddy, it's a discussion about readied actions and how they resolve, not armed warfare..

 

[Ristamar]

Readied attacks/actions cannot interrupt "instantaneous" spells. You need to use Counterspell to stop them.

http://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/10/11/mage-slayer-ready/

 

[Ovinomancer]

But movement is still not an action, is it?

Maybe. If you take the dash action, that movement is part of an action. If you take the attack action, with extra attacks, and move between attacks, that movement is part of an action. If the designer meant those triggers to be conditional only on someone moving outside of an action, you would think that they would say so. Since they didn't, and they also never said 'actions' but used 'triggers', then the reading is that you get to go 'immediately after the trigger occurs' regardless of any other considerations, such as where in an action the trigger occurs. It doesn't say, for instance, 'you get to go immediately after the action within which the trigger occurs.'

Also, there are zero, and I mean ziltch, statements anywhere in the rules that actions cannot be interrupted. In fact, in every case where you can interrupt someone else's turn, it's clear that you can interrupt actions. Counterspell, shield, AOs, and readied actions all do not have wording that says you cannot interrupt actions. They all refer to triggering events within actions. They do have differing mechanisms as to whether or not you can interrupt the trigger, but no mention of actions occurs.
[MENTION=6801315]Noctem[/MENTION] has zero rules support for his assertion that actions cannot be interrupted. None at all. Yet he's willing to argue that the rules say that actions cannot be interrupted, going so far as to claim that the clear examples and wording in Ready an Action does not contradict his stance. Note that the best support he has is that he claims that the examples don't contradict him, not that they support him. And even that's wrong, as the rule clearly says that you may reaction immediately after the trigger resolves. Immediately. Not after something else happens, not after the rest of the action resolves, immediately. It's harder to find a more clear rule on when something happens other than 'immediately after.'

Noctem is blowing smoke as hard as he can because he's desperate to not admit he made a mistake. That this is even more damaging to his claim he knows the rules than an admission of that mistake is something he doesn't seem to be able to see in his blind quest to never be wrong.

For the record, I'm wrong all the time. Just not this time.

 

[Inglorin]

Maybe. If you take the dash action, that movement is part of an action.

No, it isn't. Dash only increases your allowed move by your speed. You don't move from the Dash.

 

[Noctem]

Readied attacks/actions cannot interrupt "instantaneous" spells. You need to use Counterspell to stop them.

http://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/10/11/mage-slayer-ready/

Thanks for posting this link. Although it favors me to simply agree with it, I will still say that Mearls is known to make errors so we should all take the sage advice with a grain of salt. However, on the other hand it is found on the sage advice website itself and so has presumably been double checked for consistency.

 

[Noctem]

No, it isn't. Dash only increases you allowed move by your speed. You don't move from the Dash.

Well said, page 72 of the basic rules explains:

Dash
When you take the Dash action, you gain extra movement for the current turn. The increase equals your speed, after applying any modifiers. With a speed of 30 feet, for example, you can move up to 60 feet on your turn if you dash.
Any increase or decrease to your speed changes this additional movement by the same amount. If your speed
of 30 feet is reduced to 15 feet, for instance, you can move up to 30 feet this turn if you dash.

Inglorin is correct

 

[Ovinomancer]

I'm not making a claim. I'm explaining that your claim, which is that readied actions interrupt actions and movement isn't based off the rules of the game. It doesn't say anywhere in what you quoted that readied actions can interrupt the attack action when there's multiple attacks happening. You're assuming you can for some reason. In this case, I'm the person doubting your claim and I'm presenting facts that reflect that doubt, such as that there's another perfectly acceptable interpretation that doesn't rely on assumption of design intent and sticks to exactly what's written to function for example. I don't need to add language or meaning to the examples, I just follow what it says. The goblin moves next to me, so I move away (no mention of ongoing movement or whatever). The cultist moves onto a trap door, so I pull the lever (again, no mention of ongoing movement). Neither of the examples given say or imply that the trigger interrupts ongoing movement. What they do is show a trigger, an observable event and then what action is taken as a result. You still have a long way to go to show that you can interrupt multiple attacks with a readied action.

Also you keep using terms like defeat, victory, surrender and so on. Relax buddy, it's a discussion about readied actions and how they resolve, not armed warfare..

So, what's your ruling in this situation:
Situation: Enemy fighter, 20' away from the PC, armed with a javelin and a longsword. He has the extra attack ability for 2 attacks per attack action.

Readied action: If the enemy fighter moves next to me, I will move away

Creature's turn: The enemy fighter uses his attack action and throws the javelin at the PC. He then closes to the PC, moving next to the PC. He then uses his second attack to make a longsword attack on the PC. He then continues his movement away from the PC.

By the book: The javelin attack occurs. It is not the trigger, so the PC has no ability to use his reaction. The fighter then moves next to the PC, as part of the ability to move between attack in the attack action. The trigger for the RA has now completed, and this point, immediately after the trigger resolves, the PC has to either chose to use his reaction to complete the RA or ignore it. If the PC chooses to use his reaction, he can now use his full move to move away from the enemy fighter, before the enemy fighter can make his second attack within the attack action. The enemy fighter may make an AO, if he chooses. The fighter may then follow, up to his remaining movement, or find a different target for his longsword attack. OR, if the player chooses to ignore the trigger, he'll lose his readied action, but he might have decided he'll become even more powerful than the enemy fighter can imagine if he's cut down.

This clearly interrupts in between multiple attacks within an attack action. The given example, presented without caveat as a 100% valid trigger, shows that this is so. Now, you, as DM, may choose to allow or not allow a trigger as reasonable, and you may choose to never allow for a trigger to be stated that could possibly interrupt between attacks, but you're going to have to make sure that you're doing that at the 'determine trigger' step, because after that the rules say nothing about not interrupting between attacks and instead say that if the trigger occurs, you interrupt immediately after.

Readied attacks/actions cannot interrupt "instantaneous" spells. You need to use Counterspell to stop them.

http://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/10/11/mage-slayer-ready/

To be fair, no one here is arguing that point. We're all very clear on that.

 

[Noctem]

Maybe. If you take the dash action, that movement is part of an action. If you take the attack action, with extra attacks, and move between attacks, that movement is part of an action. If the designer meant those triggers to be conditional only on someone moving outside of an action, you would think that they would say so. Since they didn't, and they also never said 'actions' but used 'triggers', then the reading is that you get to go 'immediately after the trigger occurs' regardless of any other considerations, such as where in an action the trigger occurs. It doesn't say, for instance, 'you get to go immediately after the action within which the trigger occurs.'

Also, there are zero, and I mean ziltch, statements anywhere in the rules that actions cannot be interrupted. In fact, in every case where you can interrupt someone else's turn, it's clear that you can interrupt actions. Counterspell, shield, AOs, and readied actions all do not have wording that says you cannot interrupt actions. They all refer to triggering events within actions. They do have differing mechanisms as to whether or not you can interrupt the trigger, but no mention of actions occurs.

Noctem is blowing smoke as hard as he can because he's desperate to not admit he made a mistake. That this is even more damaging to his claim he knows the rules than an admission of that mistake is something he doesn't seem to be able to see in his blind quest to never be wrong.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Well said, page 72 of the basic rules explains:

Dash
When you take the Dash action, you gain extra movement for the current turn. The increase equals your speed, after applying any modifiers. With a speed of 30 feet, for example, you can move up to 60 feet on your turn if you dash.
Any increase or decrease to your speed changes this additional movement by the same amount. If your speed
of 30 feet is reduced to 15 feet, for instance, you can move up to 30 feet this turn if you dash.

Inglorin is correct

You can take an action and a move and a bonus action during the turn. Taking the dash action allows you to have extra movement equal to your current speed "when you take the Dash action." I don't think it's a clear case that the Dash action is taken and done with the effect being an addition to your movement after the Dash action is done, but it's largely unnecessary to make my point, so I'm going to disagree but not argue this point. Movement between attacks does the job nicely for my larger point about interrupting actions.

 

[Ristamar]

To be fair, no one here is arguing that point. We're all very clear on that.

My mistake, I thought there was still some confusion as to whether or not a readied attack could be made between the individual rays of an Eldritch Blast.