D&D 5E [5E] The few mechanical implications of Alignment

Iserith, the whole point of choosing an alignment is that you are essentially stating how you are going to roleplay your character! Just as a player who selects the Wizard class is announcing that he intends to play an guy who casts arcane magic spells rather than, say, go about smashing foes with Barbarian rage (unless he multiclasses...), a player who announces that his character is Lawful Good is saying that he is going to play that character a certain way. Selecting the Lawful Good alignment (for instance) excludes the player from declaring that his PC is going to (say) rob the peasants walking down the road, at least if the player is playing his PC according to the alignment he freely selected. If not, he's not roleplaying properly, and should have selected an alignment that allows him to have his character do what he wants. What's the point of having alignments at all, if the allegedly Lawful Good PC can do anything his Chaotic Evil counterpart can do without penalty? If a PC wants to play his character in (say) a Chaotic Evil manner, fine... but he should not be allowed to do so and also claim his character is Lawful Good! You wouldn't allow a character to be defined as a "pirate" and then let the player tell you "Oh, and by the way, he's never been on a boat, knows nothing about seamanship, and is deathly afraid of water", would you? :hmm:

The only way I think alignment/action correlations should (yes, this is one of the few things in D&D where I think everyone really should do it the way I do it) be handled by the DM is to change the character's alignment if their behavior is clearly out of harmony with it. There is no need to tell the player. They can write whatever they want on the character sheet. "LG", "pirate", "The Great and Almighty Duke of Awesomeland." It doesn't matter at all to the character's actual alignment other than serving as a frame of reference for the DM to interpret from.

If a player calls his character a pirate, but doesn't it back it up at all, the DM can safely ignore it. Just because it is scribbled on a character sheet doesn't make it true. If the character calls himself a pirate, then he is either lying or deluded, and the world will react appropriately (fear, avoidance, or simply ignoring him if they think he's full of it).

Same goes with alignment. If the player thinks his character is LG but acts LE, then in the great library in the DM's head you write "LE" and don't have to tell the player anything. If the character claims he's lawful good (assuming such phrases even exist in the setting), see the pirate example.

It's really easy to do this in 5e, since there are so few ways to find out what a character's actual alignment is, that his real alignment may never come up (unless you have brief scenes in the afterlife when a character dies like I do--and even then it's not necessarily precise) in the entire campaign.

As a DM, I would allow the player at their option to ask me to tell them if they are violating their alignment, and I would make sure anyone who might be bothered to find their character in an undesired afterlife is able to talk with me before the campaign starts so we can get on the same page of interpreting the alignments, but as far as bugging them about it during the campaign? Nah, it's silly.

(If a player was new to D&D alignments, I might give them some cues when they are first getting into the game that they appear to be acting significantly out of harmony with their stated alignment, and that the the general process is that their alignment changes to match their actions, just to make sure they are aware of that and cool with it. I might even ask them if they'd like to change their "declared" alignment.)
 

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Illithidbix

Explorer
I'm going to say that was an error in Glyph. Otherwise a simple 5th level caster would have the power of the almighty sprite, which obviously isn't intended.

I envision a totalitarian theocracy (like Istar in Dragonlance) that sends adventurers out to capture sprites so they can be forced to serve Inquisitors to identify the sinful.
 

Eejit

First Post
Anytime someone has a question about alignments I direct them here

Edit:

I especially like to point out his #1 rule for alignment:

Rule #1 of Alignment
Actions determine alignment - alignment doesn't determine actions.

I'd rather say that alignment describes your character as they currently are. It's there to remind you how your character typically sees the world, not enforce behaviour. And of course as your character changes so can your alignment.
 


MG.0

First Post
I'd rather say that alignment describes your character as they currently are. It's there to remind you how your character typically sees the world, not enforce behaviour. And of course as your character changes so can your alignment.

The article pretty much says the same.

It goes on to say that alignment is more the long term average of a character's beliefs. A single act, no matter how significant is usually not enough to shift alignment.

A lawful good character can, in fact, commit a serious crime without changing alignment. An evil character can save a burning orphanage full of babies without shifting alignment. People can do things in the heat of the moment that are diametrically opposed to deeply held beliefs. This does not change their beliefs. Now, if the evil character suddenly finds themselves saving everybody, then we start looking at an alignment shift. Natural (as opposed to magical) alignment shifts should be public and discussed with players before they happen, not kept secret by the DM. Every player is likely to have a slightly unique take on alignment and this is OK. A DM might be surprised by the rationale players have for their character's behavior that obviates the need for a shift in alignment.
 

iserith

Magic Wordsmith
I was going to read the article, but it told me that in order to access an earthlink website, I first needed to install Netscape 95.
 

Demorgus

Explorer
I remember playing in 3rd edition a priest of Wee Jas who originally was LN. He got killed and brought back from the dead. However his coming back changed his mind on his philosophy about order and how he no longer was about allowing people to accept order, he was going to begin imposing order. And I let the DM know that he was going to be changing from LN to LE. His actions however are what really signified the change. Convincing other party members to join his cause and making a pact with a half-fiend to kill off the paladin who was opposing his viewpoint. It was fun times in Planescape.
 

There is no need to tell the players when you think the PC's are out of alignment (pun intended). When the murderhobos do something bad enough, just drop a couple of angels on them with some dialogue about "foul fiends, it is time to send your souls to the hell they rightfully belong" and they will figure it out. Loot and XP from angels is just the same as from anything else.

A player has the right to believe anything they want about their PC. The rest of the world has the right to disagree.
 

Azurewraith

Explorer
Iserith, the whole point of choosing an alignment is that you are essentially stating how you are going to roleplay your character! Just as a player who selects the Wizard class is announcing that he intends to play an guy who casts arcane magic spells rather than, say, go about smashing foes with Barbarian rage (unless he multiclasses...), a player who announces that his character is Lawful Good is saying that he is going to play that character a certain way. Selecting the Lawful Good alignment (for instance) excludes the player from declaring that his PC is going to (say) rob the peasants walking down the road, at least if the player is playing his PC according to the alignment he freely selected. If not, he's not roleplaying properly, and should have selected an alignment that allows him to have his character do what he wants. What's the point of having alignments at all, if the allegedly Lawful Good PC can do anything his Chaotic Evil counterpart can do without penalty? If a PC wants to play his character in (say) a Chaotic Evil manner, fine... but he should not be allowed to do so and also claim his character is Lawful Good! You wouldn't allow a character to be defined as a "pirate" and then let the player tell you "Oh, and by the way, he's never been on a boat, knows nothing about seamanship, and is deathly afraid of water", would you? :hmm:

Not necessarily true my current PC is lawful good however he acts chaotic neuteral most of the time as well he has a reputation to upkeep as a fearsome pirate to keep people of the fact he is actually a holy assassin eradicating those that refuse to change their dastardly ways
 

E

Elderbrain

Guest
I wasn't trying to argue that the PC must always act in accordance with his alignment - after all, he's only human (or dwarven, elven, etc....), just that he shouldn't get away with consistently behaving in amanner that is clearly contrary to his stated alignment and not get called on it. Yes, actions dictate alignment (and help reveal it), but alignment also dictates and restricts actions, not in the sense that (say) a Lawful Good PC COULD NOT murder a helpless old man and steal his money, but rather in the sense that a genuinely Lawful Good PC WOULD NOT WANT to do so, and if he does, he's lying to himself about his true nature. Certainly such a character is possible - but the player shouldn't continue to insist that "Oh, he's totally Lawful Good - really!" while the PC goes about skinning baby kittens and burning down orphanages. (The deluded PC might think so, but his player surely should know better!) And of course, said PC would receive none of the few game-mechanical benefits of being Lawful Good, and would be considered Evil for such effects ("What do you mean, the Book of Exalted Deeds won't accept me? I'm Lawful Good... see, says so right here on my sheet!") :hmm:

That said, there are certainly going to be times where it isn't 100% clear whether an action "fits" with a particular alignment (people disagree on moral issues, for instance), and in such a case the DM should cut the players some slack. Sometimes, a PC might be stuck in a situation where no matter what choice he makes, he has to violate his alignment (i.e a LG Paladin promises his friend that he will go immediately and rescue his friend's wife, who has been kidnapped by orcs. After making the promise, the Paladin's superior officer appears and orders him to go on a different mission right away to save a village under attack by trolls. The poor Paladin can't be in two places at once, so must either break his word to his friend or disobey his superior... a no-win situation.)
 
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