Fury over Black Hermione Granger

[Morrus]

I'm not sure anything sets a precedent for how a fictional character must be portrayed in perpetuity. "Forever," is a very, very long time. I don't know what piece of fiction is so sacred that it cannot be played around with.

Exactly. Every character is subject to reinterpretation. Hamlet. Bond. King Arthur. Nick Fury. Hermione. Robin Hood. Perry White. Jimmy Olsen.

Anyone who insists that characters not be reinterpreted is in for a hell of a lot of disappointment. It's what we do, and what we will always do.

The change from campy Roger Moore to gritty Daniel Craig is far greater than a change from Craig to Idris Elba would be.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I'm not sure anything sets a precedent for how a fictional character must be portrayed in perpetuity. "Forever," is a very, very long time. I don't know what piece of fiction is so sacred that it cannot be played around with.

Well, I may have been engaging in hyperbole. My point was just that I don't think something being established by a pattern of actors means it has to be followed each time. I do understand that the pattern can be difficult to break, and knowing when or how to do it is probably key to making it a successful departure.

 

[Morrus]

Well, I may have been engaging in hyperbole. My point was just that I don't think something being established by a pattern of actors means it has to be followed each time. I do understand that the pattern can be difficult to break, and knowing when or how to do it is probably key to making it a successful departure.

I think it's more like evolution. Over time, dozens of different approaches are tried. The best elements of each tend to stick.

Sure, you get major missteps. Who'd have thought a Welsh guy would be a better Batman than George Clooney? But any bad interpretations are only temporary. Someone will try something else soon enough.

Hamlet has been white, black, modern, medieval, futuristic, tall, short, fat, thin, British, American, Japanese...

 

[Ryujin]

It also occurs to be that Nick Fury has had different appearances. Should he be changed back to look like David Hasslehoff, who came first?

Well he was originally a white former World War II sergeant, but in the case of his character I would say that race is the least important of the character's characteristics.

I think it's more like evolution. Over time, dozens of different approaches are tried. The best elements of each tend to stick.

Sure, you get major missteps. Who'd have thought a Welsh guy would be a better Batman than George Clooney? But any bad interpretations are only temporary. Someone will try something else soon enough.

Hamlet has been white, black, modern, medieval, futuristic, tall, short, fat, thin, British, American, Japanese...

The problem with the Clooney Batman wasn't Clooney, it was the writers and producers. Clooney would have made an excellent Bruce Wayne, which is the difficult part of the Batman character to get right.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I think it's more like evolution. Over time, dozens of different approaches are tried. The best elements of each tend to stick.

Sure, you get major missteps. Who'd have thought a Welsh guy would be a better Batman than George Clooney? But any bad interpretations are only temporary. Someone will try something else soon enough.

Hamlet has been white, black, modern, medieval, futuristic, tall, short, fat, thin, British, American, Japanese...

I don't know that the two things are mutually exclusive so I don't think I disagree with this. If a series in long enough, the effective changes will probably stick and the missteps will be discarded. So there is definitely a kind of evolving thing going on. But at the same time, when you are the person making the call on the change, it is clear choice to try something new or not. How well it is executed and how timely it is are certainly going to be factors in determining whether the change stays.

 

[Bedrockgames]

The problem with the Clooney Batman wasn't Clooney, it was the writers and producers. Clooney would have made an excellent Bruce Wayne, which is the difficult part of the Batman character to get right.

I saw that batman in the theater, and I don't think we can absolve Clooney of blame. There were other problems for sure, but I don't think Clooney was bringing anything good to the role. He is a great actor for the right part. Batman was not the right part for him.

 

[Ryujin]

I saw that batman in the theater, and I don't think we can absolve Clooney of blame. There were other problems for sure, but I don't think Clooney was bringing anything good to the role. He is a great actor for the right part. Batman was not the right part for him.

There was nothing good to be brought to that playing in the shallow pool role, as written.

 

[Maxperson]

what changes about the character though... list any 10 traits he has, and they can equally be applied to a she. Heck unless you count peeing while standing I don't know what would change...

flirt to get info... check
drink voka martine made the wrong way... check
be worlds least secrete secret agent... check
sleep with 2 people in the same movie, one being the person you should protect the other a villain... check
break rules and get away with it because plot...check
blow something up... check
get into fight with side kick of villain.... check
spout some kinda funny kinda corny one liners... check
claim to be doing it for queen and country.... check

Those aren't his traits. These are.


Male flirts with girls to get info... check
Male drinks voka martine made the wrong way... check
Male is the worlds least secrete secret agent... check
Male sleeps with 2 women in the same movie, one being the woman you should protect the other a villain... check
Male breaks rules and get away with it because plot...check
Male blows something up... check
Male gets into fight with side kick of villain.... check
Male spouts some kinda funny kinda corny one liners... check
Male claims to be doing it for queen and country.... check

Change that to female and it changes the entire feel of the character. The new Star Wars movie did it right. If you've seen the movie, you know what I mean. If you haven't, I don't want to spoil it for you.

 

[Maxperson]

It also occurs to be that Nick Fury has had different appearances. Should he be changed back to look like David Hasslehoff, who came first?

This is a prime example. Nick Fury played by Sam Jackson irritates me. I still see the Avengers, though, because his role is small and I like the rest of the movies, but I would not see a Nick Fury movie with Sam Jackson cast as Fury. I think the movie would do well, though. If Nick Fury had originally been black, I would be similarly irritated if he was played by a white guy.

 

[billd91]

The change from campy Roger Moore to gritty Daniel Craig is far greater than a change from Craig to Idris Elba would be.

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. I think a Caucasian Bond fit a certain time and was entirely appropriate for a lot of the Cold War-era, East-West relations stories. A black Bond would have stuck out a bit. That said, I'd hope that a black Bond would come with stories more focused on North-South geopolitics than East-West.