D&D 5E State of D&D

I'm not sure what you mean by "digital content"; for instance, I'd love to be able to buy PDFs of the books. (And I don't think PFO's problems are a result of what they're competing with, so much as of them making a large number of spectacularly bad decisions.)

I'm not sure it makes sense to ask what specific stuff is missing, because part of the point of new content for an RPG is that it's new to you, so until you have it you don't have any way of identifying it. Before the original AD&D MM2 came out, I couldn't have told you I wanted Modrons, because I'd never heard of them. But they have been a wonderful addition to the game that I've used more than once.

Things I would definitely like would include tons more monsters, some sort of usable psionics rules, more variety of sorcerer bloodlines (I'd like there to be a number of bloodlines comparable to what clerics got for types, say), and much more comprehensive material for things like outer planes and post-20 adventuring. I wouldn't at all mind more of the options that showed up in 4e, such as shamans or warlords.

For what it is worth I want all that stuff (except for the post-20 adventuring stuff - I'd never use that) as well. I find I really could use more mid-level and high-level NPCs as well. That small NPC section of the MM is heavily used in our games, and I could really use a wider variety of those.
 

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I would add a note of caution; it is always easy to want more. The trouble with more, is, of course, more. I don't mean to be dismissive, but if there is anything at lacking, you can make it yourself.

Most of what he mentioned and I mentioned, existed back in the old days, early in the print runs. NOTHING mentioned was anywhere near the top of the "just do it all yourself" list. Psionics was there in the core books, new NPCs were there very quickly, and new monsters were there very quickly. Planes followed.

I am an adult with a family and job and kid. So are all my players. We don't have the time we had as kids to make it all ourselves, and I sure never made an entire psionics system myself. These are not things in the "easy to want more" category of things - they are and always have been bog standard things a game does in fact need as it grows (at least mid and high level monsters, which are woefully lacking in the MM).
 

I was vague to stir the pot with my broad claims :-) Your response makes me think, in a good way.

I'm not sure if some of the individual splat mentioned is strong enough to sell in dead tree format. A "psionics book" probably won't hit the dollars. Likewise a "Expanded Subclasses" book may not cover the costs IMO. And they're hoarding the concept too: Too cheap to release it in Dragon+, too weak to put out a dead tree book for profit loss.

Maybe they could lump it all together, kinda like a Player's Handbook 2 but including subclasses, psionic rules, a "Classic Lore" section for Great Wheel fluff, and high-level-adventuring tidbits. It could be a mix between PHB 2 and DMG 2. It would sell to everyone. Of course, downside is everyone on the internets will call a spade a spade if they see Players Handbook 2. They will claim that WotC has run out of ideas, the sky is falling, etc ... Think of the backlash and negative publicity !

Re: Digital Tools
I'm very wary of digital tools vs cost, because for raw entertainment value you get Much More Gametime (and many more fellow players) just by buying a Playstation or Blizzard game. Parents already buy Xboxes for their kids... It's a weighted market that isn't favoring WotC IMO

Book / PDFs would be okay for me. Hell, it would save me luggage space. But WotC thinks the market is too tight right now. They could release a book, with a "Secret Code" to download the PDF. But those codes always get passed around on the internet.

I think they are waiting for the market / profit to stabalize before releasing PDF downloads. Then they will release ONE book with a PDF download code. They wait a year, and see if the book was profitable. If they lose money, you won't see PDFs ever again.
 


This is a really interesting point, and I think it's actually a really good point; overall, while I like getting additional books, I remember the point at which I could no longer just toss my 4E books in a duffle bag, because the bag I'd been using to carry "my gaming stuff" was no longer big enough to hold them. Let alone hold them plus any other stuff I might want handy, like dungeon tiles or whatever.
Bloat doesn't have a firm definition. I think it's at the intersection of being unable to find content you want easily (by being uncertain of the location), being unable to easily transport the material, having books that might never be used in play, and the balance of material being affected by power creep.
Give or take...

I would point out, though, I don't think that books like the PHB or various splatbooks are exactly "consumed"; I mean, I keep using them. I do start to be familiar with all the things, so they aren't Interesting And New, but that doesn't mean I use the new books instead, it means that I use the new books too. And that's where we start getting into Too Many Books.
Agreed. Although things do get weird when every option at the table is not from the PHB.

I'm not sure what you mean by "digital content"; for instance, I'd love to be able to buy PDFs of the books. (And I don't think PFO's problems are a result of what they're competing with, so much as of them making a large number of spectacularly bad decisions.)
I'd love PDFs as well.
Digital content is neat, but it does compete with the physical books, which is unfortunate. It gets necessary for games like Pathfinder or 4e, but I don't think it's as needed for 5e. There's just less math and complexity in gaining levels.

I'm not sure it makes sense to ask what specific stuff is missing, because part of the point of new content for an RPG is that it's new to you, so until you have it you don't have any way of identifying it. Before the original AD&D MM2 came out, I couldn't have told you I wanted Modrons, because I'd never heard of them. But they have been a wonderful addition to the game that I've used more than once.

Things I would definitely like would include tons more monsters, some sort of usable psionics rules, more variety of sorcerer bloodlines (I'd like there to be a number of bloodlines comparable to what clerics got for types, say), and much more comprehensive material for things like outer planes and post-20 adventuring. I wouldn't at all mind more of the options that showed up in 4e, such as shamans or warlords.
For what it is worth I want all that stuff (except for the post-20 adventuring stuff - I'd never use that) as well. I find I really could use more mid-level and high-level NPCs as well. That small NPC section of the MM is heavily used in our games, and I could really use a wider variety of those.
I'd love more monsters as well, which could include some more NPCs.
Which is why I backed Tome of Beasts. So I might be good for monsters in 6 months.

Other than that, I'd like 2-3 more subclasses for most of the classes. Maybe 3-4 for the barbarian, bard, and druid who are a little under loved. But that's far less content than you could squeeze into a single 256-page book, let alone a full-sized PHB2.
Seriously, look at the numbers. Each subclass takes roughly 3/4 of a page, so if there were 4 new subclasses for each class, that'd be around 40 pages. Maybe 50 with art. To almost double the subclasses in the game. Add subraces for each race and you might get 60 or 70 pages. What do you fill the remaining 180-odd pages with? Some spells, some feats, some martial manuevers. Yeah, that'll kill 20 or 30 pages. 150 more to go.
What then? Double the content? Triple? At that point things just become silly...

At that point, the game is pretty much done. WotC could release a single giant splatbook and "finish" the edition in terms of support in a single month. There'd be room for a big all-in-one tonal expansion (like psionics) with classes, subclasses, races, monsters and the like, but not much else would be needed.
Or they could space out that content over three or four years, with small releases that are heavy in flavour (like in the post-Essentials 4e line). Making each book with its content more anticipated and exciting.
 

That's where we have to agree to disagree. Some people (such as you?) think of psionics as "standard," and others don't.

Whether you use them or not, they've been there at-release or very shortly every release for every single edition other than Basic. That makes them objectively standard in this context, regardless of whether people subjectively liked them or used them.

Also? Define "early in the print runs." Remember- it was published in 1974. The 1e PHB was published in 1977. Unearthed Arcana was published in 1985.

Early in the 1e print runs. I am not talking about OD&D here. But even OD&D had additional NPCs and monsters added early in it's print run.

My greatest need is mid and high level NPCs challenges, and mid and high level monster challenges, particularly for solos that work at those levels. Because there is a noteworthy lack of those things in the existing material. And when those things are not there much, it becomes harder to make your own of those things - less examples means less to go off to make your own. I don't think my desire for those things is in any way a desire for bloat. It's a hole in the existing game, and it's even one Mearls has touched on before so he knows it's a hole there that needs to be filled. The rules are intended to cover mid and high level play, but the challenges don't do a very good job of supporting that play, either with examples of challenges or good rules to design your own without examples.

Psionics is a different story, as is Planes material. I can fairly see those being put in the "expansion stuff not everyone really needs" category. But the other issue I mentioned? Naw I think that's a genuine issue that most games will run into if they push into the mid levels and are home-brewed. You cannot just flip open the MM and pull out a good solo mid or high level challenge beyond a precious few examples of each - and that's an issue.
 


No offense, but I don't recall there ever being a surplus of material suited for solo high-level adventuring from, say, 1974 - 1990

I am not looking for a surplus, just an adequate amount. All editions prior to this edition did in fact have an adequate amount (including BECMI). This one does not. It's a VERY frequent complaint you hear from people who have played to mid levels, even from those who have no other complaints about the game. It's also something Mike Mearls has touched on - he also knows it's an issue, and has said the reason was they were not quite sure what direction they wanted to go for mid and high level play yet at the time the core books were written and wanted feedback on what they did include before proceeding.

You know how many CR 12 challenges are in the core books right now? Three total (two fiends and one humanoid NPC). How many CR 18? One (Demilich). That's not a good basis to expand from for your homebrewed monsters.

So it's a real gap in the content right now, they're aware of it, and we're at the stage of the game where campaigns started during the playtest or the beginning of the core rules are hitting those levels now on a regular basis. I am finding I have to draw from Reddit Monster A Day material at this point. It's time.
 
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So it's a real gap in the content right now, they're aware of it, and we're at the stage of the game where campaigns started during the playtest or the beginning of the core rules are hitting those levels now on a regular basis. I am finding I have to draw from Reddit Monster A Day material at this point. It's time.
I've been playing for the same length of time. And I've not yet felt the pressure to need this new content you are speaking of. So now what? Do our votes cancel?
 

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