Arcane Sight

[Frostbiter01]

Ok the Wizard of 14th level that I am DMing, has been out of control since about 11th level. He finally got the spell permanency and used it on himself forboth 'See Invisible' and Arcane Sight. If we read Arcane sight it gives him theinformation instantaneously of all auras in his field of vision no matter howfar away There is no overblinding him either even when each person he islooking at has 20 magical auras. As the DM this is taxing going through citieswith their myriad of spells from lights to alarms and all the spells on peopleas they walk. It has really slowed the game down especially when he does notwant the rest of the party to know and you have to pass secret notes.

The biggest issue has been when going into houses and shops.Those knowledgably of the glowing blue eyes and arcane site will not permitthem in which again cuts down the parties movements in a town to get help. Noone wants a wizard in their establishment seeing their magical wards. Alsoencounters are totally destroyed with the power being given and school ofmagic. Illusions are almost totally useless. Whether a ploymorphed dragon or doppelgangerthere seems to be know sneaking up on him.


The only way I have been able to thwart is use two parts ofthe spell description against them. First the eyes glow giving off even a smallbit of light & gives him away invisibly but he remedied that with hoodedglasses with dark lenses. Then it says 'what he can see' so I have had to coverthings in darkness, illusions and other things. Since it is permanent dispelonly suppresses it for several rounds and then it returns.


My question is twofold. First are we playing it correctlyand then secondly outside of non-detection spells on everything (not reallypossible) what else can be done to thwart this spell? I did see an articlesaying that Detect magic could be seen as a threat if used by an Invisiblemagic user to locate an enemy thus rendering him visible. Since this is on allthe time if he walked into the room with see invisibility and arcane sight on permanentlywill he become visible because these are seen as threatening actions that touchthe invisible creature in the room?


Hope I did not ramble too much?

 

[Celebrim]

You are looking at this wrong. And the wizard's player probably is as well.

Do you tell the wizard the color of every shirt he sees in town? Do you tell him the color of every store front, or even the name of every store front?

No, of course not. That's information overkill. You only pass to him pertinent information; things that stand out and catch his eye. If magic is so prevalent that it's slowing down play telling him he sees magic, then you are giving him tons of information he really doesn't need and which don't impact the game at all. Why can't you just come to an agreement that you'll only discuss information that would stand out as relevant, such as in stressful situations, unusually brilliant auras (hinting at an NPCs importance), and so forth. You'd no more describe every aura in a fantasy cosmopolitan city than you'd describe every neon sign and street lamp that was passed in a modern metropolis when playing a supers game. Only describe the 'signs' when they are pertinent to the plot or the PC goals.

As for the secret information and note passing, again, that sounds more like player ego talking than any real game need. Unless he's plotting against the party or its something that seriously takes the party by surprise and its important to RP out, who cares? Trust the other players not to metagame and leave it at that. The note passing of trivial information has to stop. And if he is plotting against the party, you've got a more serious breach of social contract going on that needs to be addressed.

The biggest issue has been when going into houses and shops. Those knowledgably of the glowing blue eyes and arcane site will not permitthem in which again cuts down the parties movements in a town to get help. Noone wants a wizard in their establishment seeing their magical wards.

Wait... what???? So, in the real world, do shop owners hide the fact that they have security systems, security cameras, and alarms? Do malls hide the fact that they have security on staff, and often police officers dedicated to patrolling the mall during store hours? Of course not! They advertise these facts! They want everyone to know! They put signs on the doors saying, "Everything you do will be recorded." They have the police officers stand at the entrances. They want everyone to know just how secure their establishment is.

Beyond that, this is a 14th level wizard. He's one of the most powerful spellcasters in the whole region. He's probably famous (or infamous). Not a lot of people go around with glowing eyes and similar wizardly paraphernalia. He has stature. Why in the world would some shop keeper want to risk offending this guy? On the contrary, it's more like, "I'm Wizard Shepherd and this is my favorite store in New Haven." This is a rich and potentially important customer, not some random sellsword, a mere potential shoplifter, or journeyman conjurer. Who gives a flip if he can see your wards and protections? It's not like you could thwart this guys will anyway, so why get all upset? Much better to remember, "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger!" By 14th level, your PC's ought to be treated with some sort of respect by the community - if only abject quivering terror and falling on their knees, "Please don't turn me into anything unnatural my lord." Why the heck would a 1st or 4th level commoner or even the rare 9th level expert dare object to what someone that can cast 7th level spells does? Part of your problem sounds like you are still trying to maintain control of your PCs. Is that because they are acting like anti-social freaks?? If so, it's not some random shopkeepers problem, nor his responsibility to bring such infamous villains to justice.

Presumably a society that actually has magic has evolved social norms and manners involving magic. This isn't the first 14th level spellcaster that has ever existed. Don't have your world act like it is. Presumably the world has evolved a society that incorporates the idea of wizards into it in a functional manner.

Alsoencounters are totally destroyed with the power being given and school ofmagic. Illusions are almost totally useless. Whether a ploymorphed dragon or doppelganger there seems to be know sneaking up on him...The only way I have been able to thwart is use two parts ofthe spell description against them.

Why are you trying to thwart it? Why are you trying to suppress your player? Of course problems and challenges that players faced at lower levels are trivial issues at higher levels! You aren't whining about the fact that you can't challenge the party with 1HD goblins are you? You are going to have to up your game and force the party to deal with situations that are challenging to 14th level characters. It sounds to me that you are new to high level play and you are struggling to keep up since the old bag of tricks like simple illusions and the like doesn't work. This is sort of like complaining you can't run a murder mystery because the party can now just raise dead. Yes, so mere assassins with no more resources than to garrot someone are now no longer problems worthy of your PCs. The problem isn't that you can't run a murder mystery; the problem is you are sending villains with too few resources and too little creativity against superheroes. It's like complaining that random burglars are no longer a real challenge for Batman or Superman. You've got to up your game here.

First the eyes glow giving off even a smallbit of light & gives him away invisibly but he remedied that with hoodedglasses with dark lenses. Then it says 'what he can see' so I have had to coverthings in darkness, illusions and other things. Since it is permanent dispelonly suppresses it for several rounds and then it returns.

Good grief, are you trying to annoy him to tedium? Embrace the superpowers. It's no longer a challenge for him to see. Make the challenge him understanding. It's no longer a challenge for him to see. Stop trying to make that a challenge. Invisible creatures are big deal for 5th level PCs - not 14th level ones. It's expected that by this point pit traps, invisible creatures, and illusionary walls aren't hard problems. Give him villains that act at a distance through charmed minions and simulacrums and gated in outsiders. Change the way you play. Everything you do has to step up to the challenge. Let the PC reveal in his ability. Stop trying to suppress it. You are the DM. You have infinite resources to provide the BBEG. Step into the mastermind role use your creativity and get out of this tedious petty adversarial stance. It's time to start making the game epic.

 

[Frostbiter01]

“Do you tell the wizard the color of every shirt he sees in town? Do you tell him the color of every store front, or even the name of every store front?

No, of course not. That's information overkill.”

That is a good point Celebrim about only giving that which is important but even then in dire situations they think all of them are. I will try to just give them what is needed.

“As for the secret information and note passing, again, that sounds more likeplayer ego talking than any real game need.”
Again you may be right but the Wizard is neutral and likes to keep hidden what items are magical and their strengths so he gets first choice or to say something is valuable when really not. He has profited much at the expense of the good party but he is pragmatic at best. Thus he wants me to keep passing notes for non-magic items the same as magic so they can never know. Maybe we need to just say no more but it does add to his character play.


“Wait... what???? So, in the real world, do shop owners hide the fact that theyhave security systems, security cameras, and alarms? Do malls hide the factthat they have security on staff, and often police officers dedicated topatrolling the mall during store hours?”

Unfortunately, your logic here is a bit flawed. True you can see the cops and probably the cameras they want you to see at a mall but if you come in with x-ray glasses or start taking pics of the security system you probably will be in a holding cell for about 2 hours until home land security gets there. I know this from a friend that works in a mall. Secondly, this adventure is in Underdark and the shops and denizens found here are not trusting of anyone much less a powerful wizard with Arcane sight, and any slight advantage is quickly taken away. So they may see the guards and sure traps to scare off the lower level intruders but the more sinister protectors or illusions that they know the Arcane vision will show especially if they are thieves or assassin guilds will not tolerate someone coming in and casting Detect Magic nor Arcane sight. Thus to enter they will need to bag the wizard to gain trust. This is especially true of boss HQs they visit. As you said they are 14^thlevel but they are up against 18^th level priests and evil wizards and Drow and so forth. I don’t play them stupid either.


“Beyond that, this is a 14th level wizard. He's one of the most powerfulspellcasters in the whole region. He's probably famous (or infamous). Not a lotof people go around with glowing eyes and similar wizardly paraphernalia. Hehas stature. Why in the world would some shop keeper want to risk offendingthis guy?”

As I stated you probably should have been told they have been under ground for over a year. The Deep gnomes are helpful and their leaders powerful but not that trusting. The Derro are crazy and slip up on some seurity but take no chances in their most private areas. The Mind Flayers are powerful spellcasters in their own right and the Kuo Toa Priests are 18^th-20^th level and do not allow silly intrusions by 14^thlevel wizards easily. Again some might say he is out of his league and puts the party in danger every time they are caught trying to fit into these societies. So again your argument over thwarting the party is not concise or correct. These things in underdark are to be taken seriously not some 1 HD goblin. They are fodder for the greater powers. In fact 3 advanced Specters were enough to draw out 6 levels on that spell caster which is not hard with touch attacks. With under 50 HP he is vulnerable to a lot of powerful crap. So again the illusions are also powerful but he can overcome them with this minor spell. So thequestion was are we using it correctly not how to rope him in. I believe the encounters are hard enough. Going into the Drow city or a city run by powerful Kuo Toa Priests and Derro Savants and high level NPCs of Cyric are not that fond of your Wizard with glowing blue eyes netiher are they dumb enough to ignore it. Also many formations are enhanced by magic and many portals and trapps about which is why all those auras are seen and even the auras on every denizen in the city even low level Derro have auras. It is a pain in the ass spell to DM.

So my ultimate question is this. Arcane sight says it gives the aura and strength on what they can see it has no range so that can be immense standing on a balcony of Water Deep. As for Detect Magic it is an area spell. SO if both casters stood in front of a room with Deep darkness the Arcane sight would see the darkness as magical and that is it. But the person using detect magic would see auras of the darkness spell and auras hidden in the darkness revealing the most powerful. Is this not correct?

 

[Dandu]

Frostbite, I think you might want to change your text color to white.

 

[Frostbiter01]

Dandu why is that?? Also how do you do those nice boxes around the quotes. I think I am making it harder on myself..

 

[Greenfield]

Aside from the reaction of those who know about Arcane Sight and glowing blue eyes, consider the reaction of people who *don't* know what it means!

Scary guy with glowy eyes? People will often see him as someone sinister. Hard time getting service at the tavern or inn? People avoid talking to him?

Add some RP penalties for his odd appearance. Add in common ignorance, since it's a high level spell that most people have never encountered: The jealous husband who confronts mr glowy eyes for looking at his wife. The gate guards who just flat won't let him into town, not because they know what he's got going on, but because they don't. And if he forces his way in, as many PCs are likely to do?

Why then the tale spreads of the sinister glow-eyed man who invaded such and such a town. Have fun with it.

 

[Dandu]

Add some RP penalties for his odd appearance. Add in common ignorance, since it's a high level spell that most people have never encountered: The jealous husband who confronts mr glowy eyes for looking at his wife. The gate guards who just flat won't let him into town, not because they know what he's got going on, but because they don't. And if he forces his way in, as many PCs are likely to do?

If I remember correctly, people offered hospitality to Hercules instead of shunning him because while they didn't know what Hercules would do if they let him in, they sure as Hades knew what he's going to do if you try to keep him out.

 

[Frostbiter01]

If I remember correctly, people offered hospitality to Hercules instead of shunning him because while they didn't know what Hercules would do if they let him in, they sure as Hades knew what he's going to do if you try to keep him out.

No matter how charming or powerful Dracula is you still don't want him coming in!

 

[Grogg of the North]

What about his alignment?

"I'm sorry Master Wizard but city law states that all magical spell effects must be dismissed or suppressed while within city limits. Furthermore, all staves, wands, scrolls, spellbooks and material components must be placed within a locker here at the gate. This is your receipt, do not lose it or else you will not be able to reclaim your possessions."

*Guard then turns to the party's warrior and demands they relinquish their weapons*

Of course all of this could be avoided with a diplomacy check, or a charm or dominate spell.

Also, while heavy handed, a targeted dispel magic would resolve the issue. But I would tread carefully before doing that. You're essentially robbing your wizard of his new abilities.

Have you talked to your player about his abilities?

 

[Dandu]

No matter how charming or powerful Dracula is you still don't want him coming in!

"The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me."