D&D 5E Is the stat system biased against front-liners?

[The Crimson Binome]

I disagree with both those statements. Dex still affects initiative order, saving throws, etc, and front line types do need higher Con as they're more likely to take damage and thus need HP.

Dex is useful, but not significantly moreso than Wisdom is. Missing either save will ruin your day, and getting surprised can also be pretty bad, but this isn't the sort of thing that will make or break a character the way that bad AC will. A low-Dex melee fighter can survive just fine.

You're also underestimating how important a good Con score is to spellcasters. Sure, they won't be targeted as often as the front line, but they also don't have the AC to avoid many of those attacks, so they end up taking more damage when they are attacked. They also need to be able to make concentration checks whenever they take damage, which melee types generally don't need to worry about.

 

[mellored]

I think the health/damage system is far more biased than stats.
Many attacks, in other systems, would be shrugged off by front-liners. Whereas D&D just keeps eating HP which adds up quickly at low-to-mid levels.
Con Saves to simply avoid or take-half of a certain amount of damage would do front-liners a service.

Damage equal to or under your Con Mod? Make a passive con save to ignore. Damage equal to or less than your Con(or half your Con) to take half damage. Etc.

That's what AC is.

Armor gives you +2 to +5 to checks to ignore damage.


Not to mention, you get bigger hit dice. Which is effectively + Con.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I also can´t see a problem with stat dependancy, although I think wisdom against cha and int is a clear winner and with point buy you really try not to put your lowest stat into wisdom, except for character concepts. It is because wisdom is overused with perception and wisdom saves while str, dex and con are more widely used (except in skills).
I could have lived with some more abilities targeting int and cha saves and some more perception folded into investigation. Which would make it a little bit more balanced.

I actually do like paladins really wanting Str, Con and Cha, because otherwise they would be too good. With rolled stats paladins may be problematic already for some groups, because +5 to all saves and 20 Str and 20 Con is really a lot.

 

[n00b f00]

Classes that use strength especially seem pretty strapped for points. Pallies and barbies for example really do want 3 really high scores that aren't possible with point buy. Compare that to say a wizard who really doesn't feel like they have to really pump anything besides int. They do benefit from having high con and dex, but not the same way Throk Kingsbane does. But a rapier using fighter only really has dex and con. Then there's moon druids, but that'sbesides the point.

Basically what Ezekiel said. Some classes feel it worse than others, and I wish point buy gave us a little more to work with. So paladunces don't really want to dump int and wisdom and so on.

 

[S'mon]

My Barbarian does great with STR 16 DEX 10 CON 16 - he could have CON 14 & still work fine. I have CHA 13 & Persuasion so I'm pretty sociable too!

 

[Zardnaar]

Classes that use strength especially seem pretty strapped for points. Pallies and barbies for example really do want 3 really high scores that aren't possible with point buy. Compare that to say a wizard who really doesn't feel like they have to really pump anything besides int. They do benefit from having high con and dex, but not the same way Throk Kingsbane does. But a rapier using fighter only really has dex and con. Then there's moon druids, but that'sbesides the point.

Basically what Ezekiel said. Some classes feel it worse than others, and I wish point buy gave us a little more to work with. So paladunces don't really want to dump int and wisdom and so on.

Roll dice, its what we ended up doing. Makes gishes a bit better.

 

[Horwath]

Roll dice, its what we ended up doing. Makes gishes a bit better.

How so?

 

[Zardnaar]

How so?

You can get luck and roll better stats. Take a valor bard for example.

Wants a decen charisma. Spell DCs, bard dice.
Wants a 14 dexterity you know medium armor.
Probably wants a 16 attack stat
and 14 con helps as well. Hit points, concentration etc.

Default array I would probably just go strength based and multiclass into it via fighter. Fighter1/Bladelock X. You also see a bit more variety with rolled stats in terms of races, otherwise you will see a lot of humans (variants) and half elves.

If you roll bad just take a spell caster or other class that is fine with 2 decent scores.

 

[Horwath]

You can get luck and roll better stats. Take a valor bard for example.

Wants a decen charisma. Spell DCs, bard dice.
Wants a 14 dexterity you know medium armor.
Probably wants a 16 attack stat
and 14 con helps as well. Hit points, concentration etc.

Default array I would probably just go strength based and multiclass into it via fighter. Fighter1/Bladelock X. You also see a bit more variety with rolled stats in terms of races, otherwise you will see a lot of humans (variants) and half elves.

If you roll bad just take a spell caster or other class that is fine with 2 decent scores.

Ah that.

hate rolling. Even if I roll the best scores. doesn't seem right.

Why not simply give 32 point buy(pathfinder society power level).

starting score is still 15 so there will be crazy high scores early on, but characters will be better rounded up and versatile.

 

[Zardnaar]

Ah that.

hate rolling. Even if I roll the best scores. doesn't seem right.

Why not simply give 32 point buy(pathfinder society power level).

starting score is still 15 so there will be crazy high scores early on, but characters will be better rounded up and versatile.

We like the random. YOU might get a 5 or 6 stat lol.