D&D 5E what is it about 2nd ed that we miss?

[FormerlyHemlock]

1) The settings, obviously.
2) The sheer volume of supplements. Yes, I know it drove TSR right into the ground, and will never be duplicated. But all of the different boxed sets, and glossy red, blue, or green handbooks with high production values...I do miss those.
3) The three Player's Options book. I remain firm in my belief that they improved the game for the better, and that all of my best AD&D 2e games leveraged those books to the utmost.

YMMV. The Players Option era was what made me quit AD&D. Couldn't stand them.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Yes, that good point about 3e pre-reqs, but 2e kits had pre-reqs too.

I think 3e styled stats are far worse than 2e for dead scores. In 2e a 13 STR didn't give you a modifier, but it did give you a weight limit, a 4% BB/LG, and a 7 open Doors. Every increase in INT gave you another 5% to learn a spell, a 13 wisdom gives you a bonus spell, etc. Now, I'm not saying those charts are perfect, but they did give each stat more meaning.

A decent houserule for odd ability scores in 5E is: odd scores give you an extra +1 to ability checks. NOT saving throws or attack rolls.

 

[ccs]

It's easy to be critical of 2e's multi-class system, but you can deny that it's the only system that allows you to create a multi-class character at level 1.

Are you not counting 1e for some reason?

 

[ccs]

YMMV. The Players Option era was what made me quit AD&D. Couldn't stand them.

That seems a bit extreme. My group of the time opted for the "Let's just not use these." option. Worked quite well.

 

[RotGrub]

Are you not counting 1e for some reason?

no, I really didn't word that comment correctly. I really only wanted to state that unlike 5e, you can create a 1st level multi-class character in 2e.

 

[RotGrub]

That seems a bit extreme. My group of the time opted for the "Let's just not use these." option. Worked quite well.

Yes, I think most groups did not use them. Those books gave you ideas and options for your game. You certainly didn't have to use them.

With that said, restricting your 2e game to the core books was far less of an imperative than it was for 3e/3.5e (especially late 3.5). IMO, you're only asking for trouble if you don't limit a 3.5e game to the core books.

 

[Sacrosanct]

YMMV. The Players Option era was what made me quit AD&D. Couldn't stand them.

I know a lot of people didn't like them, and there's no doubting that they led to 3e with all the extra options and grid based tactical play elements. But I will admit one of my favorite characters was a S&P PC. A paladin who couldn't wear armor, but had a d12 for HP and could cast clerical spells earlier. It fit with the theme of this faith, where pain led to spiritual salvation. So he took damage more often (lower AC), but had higher HP to soak it, and could heal himself more often.

 

[Tony Vargas]

It really seems like 5E pushes the custom background for anyone who isn't extremely new to the game. Like, the ones listed are just examples, and you're supposed to use them as a template for making up your own.

Agreed.

In any case, I would expect a multi-faceted background to include small bits from each aspect, rather than saying that only one of the aspects was still important - so you might have a gladiator-style perk, smith tool and watercraft proficiency, Athletics, and Intimidation. Since a background grants five distinct things, the limit for meaningful complexity in a background is five different aspects.

About what I was thinking, though you could take it farther and have a benefit that's a synthesis of two or more backgrounds' or completely unlike that of any one background.

 

[TwoSix]

YMMV. The Players Option era was what made me quit AD&D. Couldn't stand them.

Oh, I completely agree my opinion is somewhat contentious. That's partially why I made sure to post it.

That being said, I really do believe it. It led to the greater focus on tactical battlemat play over TotM, and a focus on greater amount of player-driven build customization. Both concepts that, in the '90s, were exactly what I was looking for D&D to do.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

That seems a bit extreme. My group of the time opted for the "Let's just not use these." option. Worked quite well.

If you're playing in a divided group, then it's easy to be out-voted. It's particularly harsh for someone going back to 2E because they didn't like dealing with all of that stuff in 3E; you go to all of that effort to find a 2E group, working out schedule details and whatever else, and it ends up just being more of the same.