D&D 5E [Question] Grappling

[pdzoch]

Grappling is great. It prevents the enemy from moving, which means for example that if you push him prone with another attack (or with Thunderous Smite, etc.), he can't get up and he's stuck making his attacks at disadvantage while you attack him at advantage. Even if you don't push him down, you can now spend your turns Dodging while the rest of the party kills him to death from range, which (provided you are smart enough to have a good AC that synergizes well with Dodging) makes grappling essentially equivalent to a kill, since he can't just ignore you and go attack another party member who is less well-defended.

Grappling also prevents an enemy from gaining any benefit from his own Dodge, since Dodging stops working if your speed drops to 0, and being grappled sets your speed to 0.

There are also occasionally opportunities to make the enemy pay in other ways with grapple. For example, if your party druid has cast Protection From Poison on you (1 hour, no concentration) you can now drag the enemy into a Stinking Cloud to deprive him of actions without much risk. A Tiefling might grapple and drag an enemy through a Wall of Fire, and a raging Barbarian might drag one over Spike Growth, and an Aarakocra or monk might drag an enemy off a cliff. Etc., etc.

I agree. Grappling is a technique to support the team. In a way, it is a debuff that the non-magic users can do to an enemy to enable the party to better affect the target. A good grappler can even force other conditions/effects on the target (move to another location). These are physical mechanics that several magic mechanics normal perform. (And since they are physical capabilities, they do not require a spell slot!)

 

[ExploderWizard]

One of these days, you should test a lone fighter against an Earth Elemental. If he just tries to win the damage race by flailing away with his sword, he's likely to lose. If he instead grapples the elemental and slams it prone early in the combat, and then beats it to death at advantage while it attacks him back at disadvantage, he's likely to win.

Forcing an enemy prone and keeping him there is a force multiplier of x2 or x3, well worth the 10 or so points of damage you give up on round 1 while you're setting it up.

The only problem is when grappling and you throw your opponent prone you either release the grapple or go prone with them to maintain it- that isn't RAW thats common sense at least with regard to similar sized creatures.

 

[Gaming_Unplugged]

In practice it doesn't matter--if you have multiple attacks, you break the grapple by Shoving the enemy away from you, which breaks the grapple if it moves it out of range. Doesn't work against things with long tentacle grapples though, so in that case you should just kill it.

Brilliant. Never thought of shoving.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

The only problem is when grappling and you throw your opponent prone you either release the grapple or go prone with them to maintain it- that isn't RAW thats common sense at least with regard to similar sized creatures.

It seems we have different views about how martial arts works in real life. If you were my DM I'd just have to live with that ruling, but at my table it makes perfect real-life sense that a sufficiently-strong opponent can put someone down and keep them from getting up without having to physically lie on top of them.

For example, this: https://youtu.be/uhheHiTQz7o?t=35

 

[S'mon]

It seems we have different views about how martial arts works in real life. If you were my DM I'd just have to live with that ruling, but at my table it makes perfect real-life sense that a sufficiently-strong opponent can put someone down and keep them from getting up without having to physically lie on top of them.

For example, this: https://youtu.be/uhheHiTQz7o?t=35

I'd say the kneeling guy would still be granting advantage vs third party attackers.

I do think it should be possible to 'Pin' a grappled foe in 5e, maybe with a second grapple roll (you have advtg vs target, target has disad vs you, third parties have advtg vs you) but there are no RAW rules for it. And clearly you can't be standing up while holding on to grappled target with your hand.

 

[jaelis]

OK, let's say you have a longsword. It deals 1d10 + 3 damage in two hands, or 1d8 + 3 damage in one hand. Let's also say you have an extra attack.

Your options are:

Grapple
Attack for 1d8 + 3

(average damage 7.5)

-or-

Attack for 1d10 + 3
Attack for 1d10 + 3

(average damage 13)

If you choose to grapple, you're dealing less damage overall. The grappled character can still attack back at full efficiency. Assuming the grappler and the grapplee are just trying to kill each other, the grappler falls behind in the damage race.

More likely, if you weren't planning on grappling, you'd be using a greatsword and doing significantly more damage, or a shield and have a significantly better AC. Grappling is a fine tactic, but the opportunity cost is quite a bit higher that you suggest here.

 

[werecorpse]

Ooh good a grappling thread.

In the feat Grappler it says that creatures one size larger don't automatically succeed on checks to escape grapple.

Can someone tell me where it says that without this feat they do?

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

Ooh good a grappling thread.

In the feat Grappler it says that creatures one size larger don't automatically succeed on checks to escape grapple.

Can someone tell me where it says that without this feat they do?

Nowhere, that is an error that has been errata'd - just ignore that line of the feat's text.

 

[Mistwell]

Quick question - after you initiate a grapple, in future rounds do you need to spend an action to grapple again, and is that another opposed check?

If so, seems to me the target gets two chances each round to escape - the grapple check each round on the grapplers turn, and another escape check on your own turn.

 

[Gaming_Unplugged]

Quick question - after you initiate a grapple, in future rounds do you need to spend an action to grapple again, and is that another opposed check?

If so, seems to me the target gets two chances each round to escape - the grapple check each round on the grapplers turn, and another escape check on your own turn.

No. The only way the grapple ends is if the grappled party successfully escapes (an action), casts a spell that breaks contact between the two figures, forces the grappler to be incappacitated, or in some other way is able to get out of the control of the grappler (shove as an example.) It never says you check to get out of the grapple.