D&D 5E [Question] Grappling

[FormerlyHemlock]

I'd say the kneeling guy would still be granting advantage vs third party attackers.

I do think it should be possible to 'Pin' a grappled foe in 5e, maybe with a second grapple roll (you have advtg vs target, target has disad vs you, third parties have advtg vs you) but there are no RAW rules for it. And clearly you can't be standing up while holding on to grappled target with your hand.

There are RAW rules for it under the Grappler feat but they are goofy: both you and your target are Restrained.

While we're on the subject of interesting combos, here's one: throw a net on someone in a Stinking Cloud, and then get out of the cloud. Nets restrain the enemy (speed = 0) until they spend their action to break free (DC 10 Str), or attack the net and deplete its HP. (AC 10, requires 5 points of damage or more from slashing weapons.) Stinking Cloud creates heavy obscurement and causes any creature that starts its turn within the cloud to Con save or lose its action that turn (but not its movement). You see the synergy?

Stinking Cloud obscures vision and grants the usual (advantage + disadvantage = nothing) to cancel out the disadvantage from using nets. The net, if it hits, will prevent the enemy from moving out of the cloud. The Stinking Cloud has a high chance of preventing the enemy from breaking out of the net. Net keeps the enemy immobilized so that you can, if you want, enter the Stinking Cloud every turn (you're not affected because you didn't start your turn inside), attack the restrained enemy, and leave the cloud again (no opportunity attack because the enemy can't see you).

A high-level Valor Bard with War Magic can cast Stinking Cloud + bonus action throw net to pull this combo off entirely by himself... but if your party knows how to cooperate with each other, you can pull it off much earlier. Potentially using poison-immune Skeletons to throw multiple nets per round, if you want.

Throwing a net on a prone, grappled opponent with your free hand is another way to mess up his day even more, to prevent him from getting lucky and breaking your grapple. Now he has to break your grapple and cut your net in the same round, or else it's useless and you'll just re-grapple him next turn. Also, it restrains him so that your ranged allies are no longer at disadvantage to attack him.

Finally, don't forget that dropping prone can sometimes be advantageous. For example, it's one way to counter Sharpshooter. A wizard standing up is relatively easy meat for a Sharpshooter. A wizard lying on his face launching Fireballs is significantly harder to kill. For a 12th level Dex 20 longbow archer fighter vs. an AC 15 (+Shield) wizard, it's the difference between inflicting 36 points of damage per round via eyeshots (21 points of damage if the wizard Shields), vs. inflicting only 21 points of damage (eyeshots don't change the average) or only 10 points of damage if the wizard Shields. It also reduces the rate at which the wizard has to burn Shields.

 

[robus]

OK, let's say you have a longsword. It deals 1d10 + 3 damage in two hands, or 1d8 + 3 damage in one hand. Let's also say you have an extra attack.

Your options are:

Grapple
Attack for 1d8 + 3

(average damage 7.5)

-or-

Attack for 1d10 + 3
Attack for 1d10 + 3

(average damage 13)

If you choose to grapple, you're dealing less damage overall. The grappled character can still attack back at full efficiency. Assuming the grappler and the grapplee are just trying to kill each other, the grappler falls behind in the damage race.

However if you have a bite attack, grappling your target could be very much to your advantage. I've upgraded my zombies in such a manner for example.

 

[Mistwell]

No. The only way the grapple ends is if the grappled party successfully escapes (an action), casts a spell that breaks contact between the two figures, forces the grappler to be incappacitated, or in some other way is able to get out of the control of the grappler (shove as an example.) It never says you check to get out of the grapple.

Interesting. How does grappling impact the spellcasting ability of the person grappled?

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Interesting. How does grappling impact the spellcasting ability of the person grappled?

IIRC it doesn't.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Interesting. How does grappling impact the spellcasting ability of the person grappled?

By default, it doesn't, but nothing stops you from specifically trying to gag a caster or take control of one or both hands, and that will probably involve an Athletics contest similar to grappling.

 

[Herobizkit]

Asmodeus makes a rad God of the Duergar.

For other Dwarves, perhaps you could make them elemental worshipers instead and have them honor Grumbar (earth), Istishia (water), Akadi (air) and Kossuth (Fire), giving faces to the Primal forces that form their homes.

Real talk, I just use the Norse Pantheon for Dwarves. Moradin = Odin and so on.

 

[ExploderWizard]

It seems we have different views about how martial arts works in real life. If you were my DM I'd just have to live with that ruling, but at my table it makes perfect real-life sense that a sufficiently-strong opponent can put someone down and keep them from getting up without having to physically lie on top of them.

For example, this: https://youtu.be/uhheHiTQz7o?t=35

Did you watch that video? He was squatting/sitting on top of the guy. That is perfectly fine. I would rule that squatting like that would still grant attackers advantage but wouldn't require half movement to stand up. The rules would have you believe that you can hold down an opponent with a single arm while you are still standing.

On an initial takedown when you throw an opponent to the ground, you can either remain standing but not maintain a hold, or follow them down and maintain a hold unless you have unusually long arms.

 

[Rhenny]

Here's a real life (in game) grapple experience that just happened in my PotA campaign (spoilers).

The party was facing off against Aerisi and a bunch of the Howling Hatred cultists. The fighter saw that she was lithe so he rushed her and grappled her. He succeeded in grabbing her and she tried but could not escape. Then he forced her to the ground and pinned her while another PC bound her hands. Before I knew it, they had captured her and were able to issue commands to her minions. They actually knocked her unconscious and took her back to Red Larch, a move I never saw coming.

Question to you all, can a spellcaster cast v,s,m spells while grappled? How about when prone and pinned? (As you can see I decided to waste her action attempting to get out of the grapple).

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Did you watch that video? He was squatting/sitting on top of the guy. That is perfectly fine. I would rule that squatting like that would still grant attackers advantage but wouldn't require half movement to stand up. The rules would have you believe that you can hold down an opponent with a single arm while you are still standing.

On an initial takedown when you throw an opponent to the ground, you can either remain standing but not maintain a hold, or follow them down and maintain a hold unless you have unusually long arms.

He clearly wasn't prone. You're free to grant whatever advantage you feel like against a kneeling opponent (although I wouldn't--one of the two is clearly more helpless than the other, and it's not the squatting guy) but now you're changing the subject. The rules do not require you to go prone to hold someone else prone, and that seems fine to me.

For all I know, a sufficiently-strong guy might just have his opponent's foot yanked straight up in the air or something to hold the opponent prone, or something like that. Especially if you do not have any goal that says "submission without inflicting damage," i.e. you don't mind doing things that would break joints in real life if you kept your hold. I can imagine ways for it to happen in-game, therefore I don't mind it happening in D&D. You may rule differently, but that affects only tables where DMs feel the same way you do. At those tables, the value of grappling changes; perhaps the players will Push Prone and then grapple, or maybe they will grapple, push Prone while falling prone, and then stand up again--it will depend on how the DM has ruled grappling works. When I say "grappling is great" that obviously means "if your DM hasn't changed the rules enough to make it not-great."

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Here's a real life grapple experience that just happened in my PotA campaign (spoilers).

The party was facing off against Aerisi and a bunch of the Howling Hatred cultists. The fighter saw that she was lithe so he rushed her and grappled her. He succeeded in grabbing her and she tried but could not escape. Then he forced her to the ground and pinned her while another PC bound her hands. Before I knew it, they had captured her and were able to issue commands to her minions. They actually knocked her unconscious and took her back to Red Larch, a move I never saw coming.

Question to you all, can a spellcaster cast v,s,m spells while grappled? How about when prone and pinned? (As you can see I decided to waste her action attempting to get out of the grapple).

You'd be within your rights to restrict somatic components while pinned. I certainly wouldn't allow somatic components after the hands are bound. This is why V-only spells like Dimension Door are useful.

As for your players, good on them!